Why Do We NEED Friends?| Rechab & Brittany Gray, Ike & Arianysis Todd, Demetrius Hicks

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson – Podcast Transcript

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Why Do We NEED Friends?

Guest:Rechab & Brittany Gray, Ike & Arianysis Todd, Demetrius Hicks

Air date:June 19, 2025

Ann:I think what the enemy does, and you guys have seen this especially in church world, is one of his goals is to create division. He hates what you have. He hates it. That’s his. He does that in the world. He does that. That’s his biggest goal in the church so much.

Rechab:Yes. Us being honest with each other. Humble before one another and honoring one another. I don’t think hell can do anything with it because where can he get in?

Dave:Okay, so we’re breaking new ground of FamilyLife Today. I don’t know if you guys know this. I don’t think we’ve ever done three on the couch.

Ann:Oh yeah, this is the most.

Dave:Four off the couch. What do you call this? Three on the couch; four off.

Ann:It could be like a new game.

Dave:This is a new day for us. It’s sort of weird having three people. You’re over here like our son. I don’t know what’s happening. Are trying to stay away from them?

:I’ll take it. I’ll take it. What time is dinner?

Dave:And why am I the only guy without a hat on?

Demetrius:Yeah, that’s a problem. That’s a problem. We got to bring one next time.

Dave:I got a shoe game.

Demetrius:Yeah, you got a shoe game.

Dave:Those are painted by some woman on eBay. Anyway, tell our listeners—and really if you’re just a listener, I hope you’re a watcher, watching this on YouTube—who you guys are, how you’re connected. I mean, we know you, but they don’t know you, so we’ll start over here and go, come around. Philly

Ike:Yeah, definitely Philly. Yeah. Ike Todd. Born and raised in North Philly.

Dave:Wait, wait, wait. Why aren’t you wearing an Eagles hat right now?

Ike:Never.

Dave:Never. You won the Super Bowl.

?:He’s a very confused individual.

Ike:Everything except Eagles.

Dave:Really? Why?

Ike:Niners In football?

?:Niners.

Ann:What?!

Ike:Yes sir.

Dave:Why not the Eagles?

Ike:Because they didn’t have Jay Rice. No, it is nothing like Niners. I mean Eagles fans and I can’t stand them. But I can’t front. I was kind of proud for the city.

Ann:Secretly. Secretly.

Ike:My dad, he’s getting older, so I want him to get some Super Bowls on his belt.

Dave:I’ll say Eagles fans, if you’re in Philly, I’m not ripping on you, but they’re pretty nasty.

Ann:They’re passionate.

Dave:I was on the sideline with the Lions for all these years. We go to Philly, I remember one time standing beside our head coach, Rod Marinelli, and I go, “Hey coach,” like two minutes before a game. “I just feel so good. We are going to blow them out.” He goes, “You’re right.” We got beat like 50 to 3. It’s unbelievable. And they were throwing stuff at us from the stands. It’s scary in Philly.

Ike:No, it’s real. It’s real.

Dave:Anyway, we didn’t even get to know. We don’t know anything about you except Philly. Come on, tell us.

Ike:That’s pretty much it. I mean the best thing about me is that I’m Arianysis’s husband.

Ann:That’s a good one.

:You’ve been racking them for.

Ike:I’ve been doing good.

Ann:How many years have you been married?

Ike:Eight, or is it nine?

Arianysis:No, eight. No?

Ike:Because next year we were just talking about—

Ann:You guys don’t know how long you’ve been married.

Ike:It’s nine.

Arianysis:It’s nine. We’ve been married for nine years.

Ann:You might want to start listening to FamilyLife Today.

Dave:We can help you. That you got to get right.

Ike:We literally just talked about how we are going to celebrate our tenth anniversary.

Arianysis:Yeah, next year will be ten.

Ann:What’s your anniversary? I’m putting him to the test.

Ike:March 12th.

Arianysis:Yes.

Ann:Oh, you just had it.

Arianysis:Yes, we did.

Dave:You just had it, and you can’t remember the number.

Arianysis:Listen—

Dave:It doesn’t matter.

Speaker 6:We don’t remember a lot.

Ike:We just had a baby, and it threw everything off.

Ann:We’ll give you grace for that.

Ike:Nothing else matters right now

Speaker 6:My little mama.

Ike:We actually missing her right now because this is the first time she’s staying over grandma’s overnight.

Ann:Is this your first baby?

Arianysis:Yes, this is our first baby.

Ann:How old is she?

Arianysis:She is—

Ike:Nine months, ten months.

Arianysis:She’s going to be 10 months.

Dave:They don’t even know how old their baby is.

Arianysis:She is going to be ten months on the 29th.

Ann:Okay.

Arianysis:She’ll be 10 months on the 29th, yes.

Ann:That’s fun.

Ike:So yeah. Where was I? Born and raised in Philly.

Arianysis:Yeah.

Ike:Yeah. I don’t know.

Ann:You just said the best part of your life was Arianysis.

Ike:That is the best part, yes. So when it comes to the baby, we were struggling with infertility for seven years. So that’s a huge, huge, huge, huge deal. And that’s why nothing else matters right now to us. So we just all over the place because we just in love with our daughter.

Dave:Your six-month, eight-month, nine-month, ten-month daughter, whatever she is.

Ann:But that’s really sweet. That’s a big reason to celebrate. You’ve waited a while.

Ike:For sure.

Ann:Where did you grow up and how did you guys meet?

Arianysis:Yes, it’s a great story. It’s a really great story. So I actually grew up, I was born in Puerto Rico, Dominican parents raised pretty much in Tampa, Florida until I was 17. And then at 17 my dad got called to open up in church in Brandon. So we’ve, I’ve been church planting all my life. Wow. So since 17 years old, we planted the church, CLS and Brandon. But then I met my husband through Instagram.

Dave:What?

Ann:What?!

Arianysis:So see what had happened was, see, let me explain.

Dave:Yeah. We got to know does he have Instagram game? What’s going on? Is he a big influencer.

Arianysis:He’s nice with it. And I’m super clumsy and very well—yeah. So we don’t know how, because we have no mutuals. We don’t know. It’s God. That’s the only thing that we can say. It was the Lord. Somehow, I found his page, or he found my—I can’t remember how, but basically what happened was that I went onto his page and he just loves Jesus so much that his whole page was just theology. And at that time I was so starved for it. And so I was going through his page, and I had went deep guys, like really deep, but I forgot that I was on his page. And so then I just started liking a bunch of stuff. Amen. Yeah. Yes. Piper, whoever. Yes. All of these people. Yes. I was like had anybody, well maybe, I don’t know. Yeah, it was people that were amazing. And then a couple of minutes later I get a notification on my Instagram that he had screenshotted all of my likes and said, “Shout out to Arianysis for all the love,” and I was mortified.

Ike:All her likes, it was no pictures of me. It was just quotes and stuff.

Arianysis:It was quotes and stuff. I had forgot that I was on his page.

Ann:Wait, I want to get Ike’s perspective of what he was thinking. Did you check her out?

Ike:Yeah, I did. So I went back on her page and start clicking likes, but it was pictures of her, so she was just clicking pictures of quotes and stuff. I was liking pictures of her.

Arianysis:It’s very clear, very clear.

Dave:You might be the first couple I’ve ever met that met that way. I mean there’s probably hundreds of thousands.

Ann:There’s a bunch of Lions couples that did.

Dave:I don’t know, they don’t tell me.

Ann:But who reached out to who first?

Arianysis:I think I reached out to him in the sense, I was like, I promise you I’m not a stalker. I’m so sorry. And then he had made a post about praying for somebody. And so I had commented like “We’re praying” or whatever. And then—

Ike:It was a bunch of people actually praying for this one girl or someone who was into Hebrew Israelite stuff. So everybody was praying for her and we was a part of that group praying for her. So then in the comments, it was just people making just like a discussion. And then at some point we took our discussion to the DM.

Arianysis:Yes, that did happen. Yes, that did happen.

Ann:Let me ask you Arianysis, when you started to get to know Ike, got married to him, was he the real deal? Did his page truly reflect who he was spiritually?

Arianysis:Oh 100 percent. We were long distance for the majority of our relationship. And so I think we spent maybe a total of three weeks within the same physical space before we got married. And it was because he led me. That was the main thing.

I remember the first time that I knew that this was from the Lord was because he had kind of professed that he wanted to pursue me and that he wanted to date, court me. The very Christian word court me but he wouldn’t have used that word. And I had felt in my spirit that the Lord was telling me that I needed to stop talking to dudes. I just needed to hide myself in Him.

And so I sent him a text message, and I was like, “Listen,” which is what I always do. I over explain, “you don’t really like me, you just like the idea of me. You don’t really know me. I feel like I just want to”—and so I was giving him all these reasons as to why not to be in a relationship with me or why this isn’t right.

He texted me back like, “Hey, that’s fine, but can I call you tomorrow? And in my mind, I was like, “Okay, here he goes. He’s going to try to persuade me. He’s going to try to convince me.” And so I was preparing myself to be bold and to be convicting and say no. And when he called me, he was like, “Yeah, yeah, that’s cool. You don’t have to date me, but I just want you to know you don’t have to give me a reason. Your no is enough.”

And he pretty much corrected me in a sense, just protectiveness. And in my mind, I was just waiting for him to stop talking so I could tell him off, “Who do you think you are to tell me what I can and cannot do?” And as soon as I went to open my mouth, I felt, I heard the Holy Spirit tell me, “Stop talking and submit.” And when I felt that—I don’t submit to any other man except for my dad at that point, as my pastor and as my father. And so to feel that in my heart, like, “No, you need to stop talking and submit to this” was, “Oh, okay.”

Ann:Wow.

Arianysis:So then after that, it’s just been a life of that, of joy and submission, joy, submission, protection, covering, leadership. It’s been—

Ann:I like that you put those words along with those.

Arianysis:Yeah, it’s been amazing. Yeah.

Dave:Okay guys, first couple on the couch.

Rechab:Yeah, Rechab Gray. This is Brittany. I don’t know how to do this joint, but yeah, this is Brittany, my beautiful wife.

Dave:How many years?

Rechab:We will be 16 this year. Am I tripping on that?

Brittany:No, you’re right.

Rechab:Sixteen years this year.

Brittany:In August.

Rechab:In August. And yeah, been the ride of our lives for real, for real, for real. We got four kids: Aaron, Zipporah, Jonathan, Hadassah; 15, 14, 5 and 4. Okay.

Brittany:Everyone had birthdays so.

Rechab:Yeah, yeah. We met—so part of our story too is so, and Ike can share a lot more about his whole background musically, but I met Ike when he came back to Philly because he left for—how long was you in LA?

Ike:Two years.

Rechab:Two years. So I met him when he came back to Philly. He started coming to the church that I was a part of. And it was actually Arianysis, who I learned later, had pointed him to go to that church. Am I right about that?

Arianysis:No. I just want—

Ike:To become a member.

Rechab:To become a member. She was pushing him to become a member.

Dave:Doesn’t sound very submissive.

Arianysis:I was being a helper. I was helping him.

Rechab:I’m so glad she did though, because he locked in on a small group I was in. It had to be 20, early 2015 when me and Ike really locked in, which geesh, that’s like ten years. But long story short on that. So yeah, we was already I guess on staff at the church there and me and him locked in and I don’t know, there’s certain people you meet where you just know.

It’s funny, actually, when I first—first day I met him, I didn’t like him because I knew he was into hip hop and I had some, not because I’m a hip hop head, love hip hop, but Christian hip hop, I just had some stuff with it, you know what I mean? And it is a lot. It’s a long story with that. But when I first met him, it was like, “Nah, I don’t do, I don’t bang with musicians like that no more.”

But it was like, I don’t know, a few weeks later he was saying something in the group, and I was sharing that I was about to preach. And he just was like, “Yo, I know you’re about to preach. What does that look like?” So I was like, “Well, meet me here and let’s talk about it.” And ever since—

Ike:Not exactly.

Rechab:Nah, nah, I ain’t saying it like that.

Ike:I said he asked for prayer because he was about to preach that coming Sunday. So this was Wednesday. We was at a small group. He asked for prayer. Saturday morning was a men’s bible study. “Hey, you mentioned you needed prayer because you’re preaching this weekend. When you get a chance, I love to know just what’s involved in that. What was going on? You seemed like you were struggling through some things. What is that like to prepare a sermon?” And he said, “Why?” “I am just curious. I just want to know.” And he was like, “Yeah, but why?” “I just want to know.” That sounds—

Arianysis:But why no context, but why? You don’t know if it’s good or bad if you’re in trouble. It’s just, but why? I don’t know about,

Dave:What was that question about? What was why?

Rechab:Nobody asks about sermon prep unless you feel called to sermon prep.

Dave:That’s true. Exactly. Unless you’re like a preacher.

Ike:I didn’t know. I just thought I was genuinely curious. I just want to know. So then he’s just like, “What you doing Tuesday?” So we started meeting and that was how we kicked off.

Arianysis:I think you genuinely did not think that what you were interested in was abnormal.

Ike:I had no idea.

Arianysis:We were the ones that had to say, “You desire to study theology all day long.”

Ann:I was going to say based on your Instagram post, it makes sense.

Ike:But I got saved in 2011, 2011. So I was just fresh, and I thought this was normal. I thought everybody wanted to study the scriptures all day every day—

Ann:That’s cool.

Ike:—and talk about theology and all those things.

Dave:They should.

Ike:And that’s what she said. She was like, “No, everybody should read them, but you love it.” So she was like, “God is calling you.”

Arianysis:Also, he didn’t get saved in a church. He got saved in his apartment watching YouTube. So even him becoming a part of the congregation or become a member was—because he didn’t grow up in the church. So even that concept was new to him. So I was like, “No, no, no. You don’t just go; you have to become a member at a church. You should become a member of a church.” That was, yeah. So it was a lot of, it was a new world for him. And so that was really cool to walk with him with that.

Dave:Man, I hear that. And I’m thinking, what if somebody’s watching this on YouTube and they come to Christ? I mean God uses all vehicles. Wow. What a story.

Ann:Let’s hear Demetrius. Let’s hear your story.

Demetrius:That’s going to be part of my trauma later, being forgotten. I’m just playing.

Ann:Well, because you’re our adopted son, we don’t forget.

:That’s what I’m saying.

:You guys adopted me out.

Demetrius:But no, I’m Demetrius from Alabama and I kind of share Pastor Ike’s sentiments. I think Alabama fans are some of the worst, which is why I don’t follow them but—

Dave:Really, and you’re from Alabama.

Demetrius:I know.

Dave:I thought you had to be.

Demetrius:I know it’s sin for Alabamian. No, I’m not a fan of the Crimson Tide.

Dave:Nick Saban’s not your personal savior or anything.

Demetrius:He’s not, and I don’t have any statues or relics or anything like that. I was not at the coronation when he was driving away from the city. I was at the house.

I actually met Pastor Rechab in 2021, the week that my mom passed away. Just me being the do what’s right, rule follower, he was actually preaching at a church that I was serving at, and they wanted the elders to meet him. And so I just went to the church that Sunday. And to be honest, it was like the Lord set it up because even the way we dressed that day. I needed him to have on the outfit he had on because we probably wouldn’t have talked, which is a whole another side story in another podcast conversation.

Dave:I think so.

Ann:Oh, can you just tell us what did he have on?

Demetrius:I remember it was the tennis shoes and the all black.

Rechab:All black everything.

Demetrius:And then I had on all black with an Adidas shoe and he had a cap. And for me in that time, specifically in that space, that was important to see someone like me who shared story and history and things like that. And I remember we had one conversation and when he brought up Fred Hammond, which is one of our favorite gospel artists, I was like, “Okay, this dude can be a friend.”

And then after having other conversations, we like to say we had a conversation that was kind of similar to Mary and Elizabeth were like our spiritual babies jumped. And I was like, “This is going to be an actual brother and a friend.” And then through that I met Ike and Arie and Brit. The Lord at a time where I thought that true friendship would not be able to happen again, the Lord was like, “No, I got you.” I love these people dearly with my heart.

Ann:And you were an elder at the church.

Demetrius:I was an elder at the church.

Ann:But were you a worship leader as well or were you doing anything musically?

Demetrius:In that season, I was not.

Ann:Really?

Demetrius:I was not the worship leader. I was a elder helping out with different areas.

Rechab:We all had the same reaction. We all did the same thing.

Ann:Wow.

:Very confusing, very confusing time.

Demetrius:It was a confusing time in general for me. Lost my brother 11 months before losing my mom. Then later that year would’ve lost my uncle, had a church situation that changed that I helped to plant and launch. And so honestly, I say a lot of times the friendships here was that voice of resurrection in the middle of a dark time. And so I just thank the Lord for His faithfulness and not forgetting me.

Rechab:And part of that too is, so I met Pastor Meech when it was coming out of our dark season of almost losing our daughter. So we was both reeling from this past season, losing his mom the week before.

Dave:That’s when you guys met?

Rechab:We literally met—

Demetrius:—the week of.

Rechab:—the week of. It had to be maybe a couple months after she made it back home.

Ann:And your story, you guys, Brittany, and Rechab is compelling. We had you on FamilyLife Today and interviewed you about that. You have walked through some dark, hard things, but you guys met in the midst of—

Demetrius:In the middle of all that.

Ann:—hard things.

Demetrius:And then to be honest, all of us were walking through things. They were still—

Ann:Really?

Demetrius:—in the middle of the—

Dave:Infertility.

Demetrius:—desiring a baby and all of that. I just think it was different than trauma bonding because these people still had such a hold to Jesus. I think that’s the thing that gave us a respect for each other. If a person can suffer well, I know that these are people that I could ride with, and so just to see their faith encourage my faith. And then I would think the same thing as we were all journeying through hard stuff, which also made the church plant feel really like, “Lord, can you give us at least five years, let us go and get to know each other and all this kind of stuff.” And the Lord was like, “Yep, 2022.”

Dave:Yeah. So talk about the church, how you started it.

Rechab:Yeah, so it wasn’t me; it was Pastor Ike. So we was in Des Moines, Iowa,

Brittany:—the four of us.

Rechab:The four of us. So it’s such a—

Brittany:That’s a crazy story.

Rechab:—crazy story. So when we first started locking in, yeah, just again, it’s those relationships that you can’t pry yourself away from. So from that relationship found out that they was dating, then engaged.

Arianysis:You found out after we got engaged.

Rechab:And I was like, “Oh snap.”

Ike:He refused to do our wedding. Yeah.

Arianysis:He refused to do our wedding.

Rechab:No, no, no.

Arianysis:He did.

Rechab:No, this is a sacred couch.

Arianysis:No, he invited him multiple times.

Dave:I’m believing them.

Ann:I think some offense.

Arianysis:We’re very offended.

Ike:See you guys going to help walk us through ministry.

Dave:What do you mean you wouldn’t do it?

Ike:So after not receiving an invite—

Arianysis:They gave us our premarital counseling so that’s also there. They’re the one who gave us our premarital counseling.

Ann:But he wouldn’t marry you.

Arianysis:No,

Rechab:No, no. How are you guys going with that side?

Dave:Did he marry you?

Arianysis:No.

Dave:I think you’re right.

Rechab:I just let them have this one.

Ann:Because—

Rechab:They say I was at a speaking engagement that the calendar doesn’t actually agree with.

Arianysis:No, I think honestly for me, I didn’t know if we could ask because they were in Philly, and then how do we get them here? We were broke. We couldn’t afford to even get married, so how do we get him here? Could we? Do we ask? And so there was all of that. And in between that and because we also weren’t having a long engagement. So in between all of that, I think it all got mixed in. And now we really deeply regret the fact that our brother did not marry us. So, but it’s also something that we joke around all the time.

Ike:Yeah, we joke.

Rechab:But seriously, I remember them getting married and I can genuinely say this, part of what made them so quickly even closer is because her heart posture coming in. It’s like me and Ike locked in, but that don’t got nothing to do with the four of us. You know what I’m saying?

Ann:Yeah.

Rechab:And so I’m sure any listener knows you could have that relationship with the dudes is tight and then the ladies is like, “Why do I have to?” Or it could be vice versa, you know what I mean? But she was so just coming in humble, just wanting to learn and it just clicked really quickly. And so by the grace of the Lord because of that, we started doing ministry together at the church we were at.

And then through a crazy series of events, the four of us with our two kids at the time, moved all the way out to Iowa together. So we going from Philly, north Philly specifically, all the way out to Iowa together. And that was tears, laughter, pain, joy, everything mixed in with all of that. And I think when you have those experiences of leaving, for me the only city I’ve ever loved, yeah, it was so tough. I don’t think we would’ve, not just thrived, I don’t think we would’ve made it—

Ann:Without each other.

Rechab:—without each other.

Brittany:Oh, 100 percent. There was no way.

Ann:It’s interesting that you all met through some pain and hard things when most people, when you struggle and go through pain, a lot of times you isolate and withdraw.

Dave:—pull away.

Ann:But you didn’t. You all were bonding through some of that. Do you think what you have is unusual?

Arianysis:Oh yeah.

Ike:Yeah. But sad though.

Brittany:That’s sad.

Ike:We’ve learned that it’s unusual.

Dave:Okay, why is it unusual? Why do people not have—

Ann:—this bond the way you have?

Dave:We want to help people get what you’re talking about.

Ann:Everybody wants what you have. They’re not sure how to go about finding it.

Ike:I think we just committed to sticking through it.

Arianysis:Yeah, I was—we always talk about not leaving the table.

Ike:Not leaving the table.

Ann:What does that mean?

Dave:Don’t leave the table.

Rechab:Yeah, I was going to say this. So we argue—

Arianysis:Yes.

Rechab:And I am talking about, you know what I mean? We disagree and we disagree.

Arianysis:They do like a sport and argue like events.

Rechab:It be the smallest thing or the biggest thing. So he like Jay; I like Em. He likes LeBron.

Ike:Jay-Z, Eminem.

Rechab:Okay, thank you.

Ann:Michael Jordan

Dave:We like the bad boys. Dennis Rodman,

Rechab:Isaiah, the one Jordan poo-pooed on later.

Arianysis:Keep going.

Ann:You’re different.

Rechab:So we argue, and we argue deeply, but even in front of people, they could be like, “Yo, are y’all okay?” We like, “Yeah, we getting dinner tonight.” But for others it can feel like, “Yo, it should make it uneasy if y’all are disagreeing so much.” And now it’s like if we don’t disagree, but we have disagreements, all that is distance because you’re not telling the person that you actually disagree. And in that distance, I think that’s where you start to demonize even people that you are supposed to be deep friends with. And so what we’ve done is just like, “Yo, let’s keep a short record. Say what you guys say. Say it straight. And if we got to fight about it, we going to fight about it. We know we not leaving the table.”

Brittany:Yeah.

Rechab:That has been I think the thing that has kept the five of us honestly, even starting this church, it was like a lot of arguments, a lot of disagreements. We don’t all come from the same church background. We was laughing earlier about that.

Demetrius:We just laughing earlier. Yeah.

Rechab:Pastor Meech comes from deep church background. I thought I was church. Ike not even. Arianysis is like church, church, church, church but it’s Spanish.

Dave:She knows Carmen. That tells you everything.

Rechab:And I think what bonds us is the willingness to go to the table and say, “Here’s what we feeling,” “Here’s how I feel,” “I don’t like this,” “I do like this.” And especially amongst not just different cultures here but different genders; that could be very, very challenging and stressful, and here’s the word that we all hate, awkward.

I think a lot of times relationships and friendships don’t go where they need to go simply because we’re afraid of the awkwardness of straightforward disagreement. But if you can make it past the waters, the murky waters of awkwardness and disagreement, on the other side of that all you do is build a closer and closer and closer and closer and closer and more unbreakable bond.

Ann:It’s like a marriage.

Rechab:It is.

Ann:You’re staying in it no matter what. Why do you think people leave the table, generally speaking?

Arianysis:I think there’s a lack of trust. I think if Brittany or Rechab or Meech do something that I don’t, that rubs me the wrong way or might offend me or that I just don’t understand, I deeply trust their time with the Lord, and I deeply trust their character. And so when something happens that doesn’t match up with that, “Hey, can you help me understand why that doesn’t match up,” or “Help me understand what you were trying to do here,” or stuff like that. And then because we’re coming with a desire to understand as opposed to be understood or for you to know that you’ve hurt me, but rather we’re always seeking reconciliation, always seeking understanding, always seeking and we trust each other’s characters and times with the Lord that it makes it possible for us to enter into that.

Ike:We assume the best.

Arianysis:We assume the best.

Rechab:Yeah.

Arianysis:If a relationship doesn’t have Jesus at the center of it, if you can’t trust each other’s times with Jesus, then yeah, it’s not going to work. But I trust each and every single person’s time with the Lord.

Ike:I don’t want to oversimplify it, but we do fear God. And so we have to reconcile. It’s not—

Ann:—out of obedience.

Ike:Out of obedience; there’s no other choice we have to reconcile. So that’s what we mean by not leaving the table. I can’t just harbor bitterness. I have to say this at some point because if not, it’s going to turn into some type of sin or something that’s going to blow up. So we have to talk about it. We just talking about it in the car. After this, we got to talk. So it was like we don’t not argue, we don’t not fight. We don’t sweep things under the rug. No, we deal with it and then we go and eat.

Rechab:Yeah, that’s a lot of food.

Demetrius:Food has been very instrumental.

Brittany:Yes, it has.

Demetrius:And I’ll even say this to honor.

Ike:That’s a good word, Meech.

Demetrius:When you honor a person, you don’t objectify them because what happens is when they become an object to me, I’ll kick a ball around. But when I honor them first off as being made in the image of the Lord that I fear, I’m looking in the eyes of somebody that the Lord made and He loves, and then we have the fear of the Lord, then we have our love and respect for each other, our respect for their walk with the Lord. All of that kind of stuff makes that gumbo that helps us really maintain. It’s not easy.

So we’re not sitting up here saying every single thing has been perfect and easy, but we are saying that we have been faithful to really—we have hard conversations, tough conversations. And because we have that commitment first to the Lord, then to each other and to the scriptures. How much scripture is used between this group of people? I’ve not had it like that. As a matter of fact, I’ve had things in the past where it was like, “Oh, we knew you were going to bring a scripture.” These people, we expect it.

Ann:You want it.

Demetrius:We want it because we all fear the Lord, “Faithful are the wounds of a friend and profuse,” I love the CSB, “Excessive are the kisses of the enemy.” And it’s like when you’re not dealing with yourself before the Lord, when you’re not dealing with your insecurities, when you’re not dealing with your fears and anxieties that we all bring to the table, you will prefer excessive flattery—

Ike:Wow, bro.

Demetrius:—than rebuke.

Ann:Good.

Demetrius:He said, “Faithful are the wounds but profuse are the kisses of an enemy.”

Ike:That’s so good, man.

Demetrius:And some of us are so carnal that we prefer kisses that are excessive because it makes us feel good than the faithful wounds of a friend. And for me, being the single in the group, friendship has been the thing for me because I don’t have a spouse. So the body of Christ in developing, cultivating friendships has had to be the apex of my community. I’m literally called to be a part of a body. And I think that’s something too, we’re called to be a part of. God saves us and then we’re saved into a family. And so even for my single friends out there that are listening, it’s like, no, we need community.

I was just reading through the Proverbs, which this morning I was listening through the Proverbs, and it was a funny moment because I had just preached on the genealogy of Jesus. I was thinking about Solomon and how he started so well and then how he ended and then I’m listening to his wisdom. So you can know a bunch of stuff and not practice that which you know, and you can end up in ruins.

Dave:Preach it.

Demetrius:But something that he said was like, when you isolate yourself, you’re headed toward destruction.

Arianysis:Wow.

Ike:Crazy.

Demetrius:It says in Psalm 68 that he places the lonely in family, but the rebellious in a sun-scorched land. And it’s like when you think about that kind of stuff, like I need people. We need each other. We don’t just like each other. We need each other. Pastor Ike has a faith and like a sternness. I got to see that while he was praying for a baby. I got to see a sturdy faith. Arie, I got to see a lady who was—

Rechab:Yo, can I even say this real quick? On Arie and I’d love for her to speak to this. So humility, honesty, honor has been three things I think every relationship requires.

Dave:Say it again. Humility.

Rechab:Humility, honesty, honor.

Dave:You’re a preacher; three Hs.

Rechab:Right.

Ike:You got to do it.

Dave:I mean hit it. What do you mean humility? What do you mean honor? You guys know what’s interesting? Do you guys know the root in the Hebrew of honor? The word means bend the knee. So the picture is when you honor someone, when you bend the knee to somebody, you’re like, “I’m in the presence of somebody extremely valuable.” That’s what honor is. No matter what, I’m having a disagreement, even if we’re in a fight, it’s like you still are extremely valuable. Think about that in your marriage or with your kids but obviously listen to you guys. I’m like, there it is, humility. Go.

Rechab:Yeah, no. And defined by Philippians chapter two.

So Paul says, “If you want to complete my joy, have the same mind, the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.” He says, “Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.” And then he says, “Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped.”

But that two part: don’t do something from ambition but count others as more significant, it’s inherently humbling when you honor others, but you can’t do both at the same time. You can’t honor yourself and try to honor others. You can’t be humbling somebody and try to stay humble. I think we have a very self-care, self-exalt, self-build up culture, and I wonder what would happen if instead of trying to serve my own needs, I serve others’ needs and they’re doing the same.

When that happens, I never have to fight for my own honor because I’m getting it from somebody else and vice versa. The reason why we fight for our own honor though is because others are not actually giving it to us, so we feel like there’s a void. But when you’re constantly being honored by the other, then I don’t need to fight for my own “Think about me” respect. No, they’re already doing this, that and I’m going into the conversation doing the same thing.

So I think humility and honor go hand in hand, but then honesty is where it all breaks down. Because you can try to honor somebody with lies and that’s flattery. So it’s not actually being honest about what you’re honoring, you’re just saying what they want you to, what you think they want, want you to say and what they want to hear so that you can actually serve yourself and your own desires.

But on the flip end, you could go about behind their back and say something that’s not true either. That’s gossip. And I think the other side of that is you can also build up with lies, but you can also not check them and challenge them with not telling the truth. That’s why like Ephesians four says, “Let each one of us speak the truth to our neighbor, for we are members of one another.” I think that there’s a void of telling the truth to your neighbor.

And so what do you do when you actually start to tell the truth? Like “Ike, nah, last week that joke was like not good.” If he hears that only from a standpoint of challenge, conviction and almost condemnation and there’s no honor tied to it, it’s going to be nothing but defeating. But if I can honor him as I’m giving him the honest feedback, then there’s a reason to receive what’s being said.

But here’s the humility; as soon as I check him, I got to be ready to be checked too though. And you put those three things together; I literally think hell doesn’t have a solution for that problem. Hell has no scheme against the body of Christ, and in relationships, us being honest with each other, humble before one another and honoring one another, I don’t think hell can do anything with it because what can he get in?

Ann:I think what the enemy does, and you guys have seen this especially in church world, is one of his goals is to create division.

Ike:Yes, absolutely.

Ann:He does that in the world. He does that in the church so much. He hates what you have, he hates it. But we’ve been in church world to see sometimes this part, Satan will do anything to divide you. So when it comes to these topics of humility and honor, when you go into that, how do you not become jealous of the fame or the attention one of you is getting? Because you’ve got that little whisper in your ear, “Oh, he’s better than you. He’s getting more attention,” that insecure part riles, brings its ugly head up. How have you dealt with that?

Rechab:Well, I’m going to ask my wife. Can you speak to when we did get pregnant with Jonathan on just the way Arie served you?

Arianysis:Oh my gosh, I’m going to cry. Don’t do that.

Brittany:Yeah, well it’s so intricate of a story, but long story short, I mean even through our miscarriages you were there. We had gone through a couple miscarriages, and we had two miscarriages, pregnant again. And this is, we already had two beautiful kids. So I mean immediately you were by my side; during the pregnancy test, she was there.

Arianysis:You didn’t want to take it.

Brittany:I didn’t want to take the pregnancy test. I was nervous that this was not going to work again. I literally took the pregnancy test, brought it to your house or did I take it at your house?

Arianysis:You took it at my house.

Brittany:Yeah. I took it at her house, and she read the results for me and told us we’re going to have another baby.

Ann:I’ve seen this personally. This can wreck a relationship. When one person gets pregnant, you’ve been trying to get pregnant, and your friend gets pregnant. And I’ve seen relationships, it’s so painful that I’ve seen women back out of the situation. How did you not do that?

Brittany:Yeah. Honestly, Arianysis had seen multiple pregnancies throughout our small group of friends. I mean it was like three maybe you had seen already, just with our small group of friends.

Arianysis:It was insane. It was crazy because I knew you had started; you were trying to get pregnant; you guys were open to having more children. And immediately when I knew that, I was like, “Lord, please let me get pregnant with Brittany. Please be the greatest thing for us to be pregnant at the same time.” And at the time I had another friend whose name was Brittany as well, who we were really close with. And I was just like, “Lord, please let me be pregnant with Brittany. Please let me be pregnant with Brittany.”

Turns out they too got pregnant at the same time. And they were the closest females that I had, the closest friends that I had to me. And in the midst of infertility in the sense of not getting pregnant but thinking we’re pregnant and not being pregnant and not getting answers because we couldn’t; just having bad experiences with doctors and things like that. And so there was a sense of hopelessness in that. But yeah.

Dave:I mean has there been a sense ever, I mean, how many years has this been for you guys to be—

Ann:All of you been together?

Dave:—such good friends?

Arianysis:We said 10.

Dave:So you guys 10 years and—

Ike:Three, four years.

Dave:Yeah. I mean has there ever been a time where you hang out or whatever and then you go home and the wife or the husband, you say stuff about the others where it’s like, “Hey, I can’t believe she said that” or “I can’t believe you said that.” Or has there ever been like, “Ah, this thing,” and what do you do with it?

Ike:For sure there’s been I think discussions that we have had and I’m sure they have had where it’s like, “I don’t know how that went,” but usually after the conversation is gone that way, it’s like, “So when are we going to call them?”

Brittany:Somebody will FaceTime?

Ike:Yeah. So literally we’ll just be dumb lights.

Brittany:Really?

Rechab:There will plenty of those.

Ike:Late at night, we just got away from each other. It’s like, “I don’t know about that.” And we are like, “Yo, y’all still up?” And it is just got to be a FaceTime. I know—

Dave:So short accounts, man; you don’t let it go.

Rechab:I know even me and Meech for sure, it has been like next day. Like, “Hey, yo, remember that?” “Yeah, what you think about that?” And I think what she said is so good. It always starts with a question, not a statement. Yes. Because I think oftentimes, we get furious before we get curious. So you build up a whole idea and you come into the conversation furious.

When really you don’t even, you already built a case.

Demetrius:You built the case.

Rechab:You don’t even know the context of what happened. And so I think it’s really important to be curious before you get furious because sometimes you just come in curious with a question. You’re like, “Oh snap, that’s what that was. Alright, that helps me out so much.” And so I think that’s been big, but I also think most of the time this is way more happen. Ike will say something that challenges me. I’ll be like, “What’d you think about that?” And it’s more like, “Yeah, I think you need to lean into that.” So that’s a lot more of our conversations.

Ann:Brittany’s like, “Ah, thank you Jesus.”

Arianysis:Yes. Can we talk about that? This is my biggest advice to married people or to women who are married.

Dave:Let’s hear it.

Arianysis:Find other men who can come around your husband. Because if your husband is in isolation and you’re in isolation, and if Ike is doing something that’s in our marriage that’s kind of funky—

Rechab:Boy tripping.

Arianysis:—I got two men that I can go to, like “Your boy is tripping, and I need you to talk to him.”

Or this is going on. Or if I’m tripping, “Brittany, this is going on. I said this. Was I messed up? Am I crazy? Is this an expectation that I should be having on the Lord and not on Ike? What’s going on?” And that’s happening.

Ike:That’s real.

Arianysis:And if I don’t understand how marriages within the church who don’t have this, make it honestly because these are the people that we depend on. And if you are going through something in your marriage and you’re going through it in isolation, now division comes in. Now you can build a narrative against your husband. Now your husband’s your enemy.

But if you feel like you have a community who’s behind you that are seeking reconciliation always within each other and we thrive when they thrive, we thrive when he’s thriving. You know what I mean? And so we are seeking their thriving. We’re not just seeking for them to be well, for them to be okay. We want them to thrive. And so even as your question about, what do we do? Rechab is the more vocal one; vocal, the most heard and because he’s gifted, he is amazing. That is what God has called him to do. And we also have this mentality that if he eats, we all eat. And so there’s that.

We really, really want him to, we want to see the Lord because it’s not about us, it’s about the Lord. And so the Lord is doing something in Rechab. And so we celebrate it, we facilitate it, we encourage it. We want to help in any way that we possibly can. And the same vice versa—oh sorry—vice versa. And so that doesn’t, I’m not saying that the enemy doesn’t whisper those things, but it’s so quickly shut off.

Ann:But you won’t let him have a foothold.

Arianysis:Not at all. Because there’s love and there’s trust and there’s also, we fear the Lord. And it is not about us.

Ike:You got to be honest with yourself as well.

Ann:What do you mean?

Ike:He’s not just the most known or get the most speaking engagements or something like that. He’s the best preacher.

Arianysis:Yes!

Ike:I’m not. He is. So we want to get behind him, not only, and when I say best, I do mean he’s technically a more skilled, but he’s anointed to do this—

Dave:And you’re anointed to do something else.

Ike:Say it again.

Dave:You’re anointed to do something else.

Rechab:I’m anointed to do something else. And how I’ve been able to receive that and learn that and take ownership is because they told me. So that’s what that whole thing about not having to look for my own honor. They convinced me, “No, this is what God has anointed you to do. You have this special thing.”

Dave:And I’m guessing they also told you what you’re not good at.

Rechab:Yeah.

Dave:Vice versa. This is not your lane. This is you have a brother or sister that’s honest and saying—

Rechab:Absolutely.

Dave:—“Your mom told you, you could sing, but you’re going to lose an American Idol.” You ever see those? Went on American Idol and they’re terrible. “My mom said I could sing.” Yeah, she lied.

Rechab:But the saddest part is that’s a show, a game show. Think about how often that actually happens in the church.

Demetrius:That happens for real.

Rechab:Where the church’s excellence comes down because we lying to each other because we’re not honest. We’re trying to honor without honesty, which is just flattery. And no funny because I’m be sure, they will say that. I still think these two dudes are some of the best preachers in the world. I mean that. But I think genuinely, I think one thing that we came to the table and started in this church is there’s part of its intentionality, but part of it is God’s sovereignty.

So let me explain that. The intentionality part is what Pastor Ike was saying. Like, yo, just be honest. Be real about who you are. Be real about what other people are. And you might not be able to see yourself the best, which is why you need other people to see what what’s good. So be in intentional. Honor what you see.

That sister right there is one of, and I’m saying this to anybody who hearing, Arianysis should be known with the—and I’m saying this for myself—Priscilla Shirers and all of those folks. I’m talking about that kind of gifted as a communicator of the scriptures. She is nice with it. I listen to a lot of preaching. That’s easy to say. Easy, easy, easy to say. That’s the most brilliant mind when it comes to theology and creativity that I’ve ever been around and I’ve been, I’m pursuing my PhD. I have never, ever in my life, and this is not an exaggeration, I’ve never in my life been in a classroom and been that blown away like I have with Ike. He just different. He built different. God has just built him. He just different yo.

That’s why I’m always quick to say, no, no, no. That was him who started this. That wasn’t my mind. I ain’t think of Orlando. I was thinking of Orlando ain’t care about no Orlando ain’t know nothing about that. No, that was him when it came to the New Creation Fellowship. Why is our church called that? That’s him. When it comes to our vision statement, that’s him. That dude, his mind is so stinking brilliant. I can’t describe it.

And this dude next to me was the first guy that I ever came across who had to me—there’s voices you can respect. There’s voices that you like and there’s voices that you got to respect and you like as well. He got all of that. Take his singing ability away today now, and he’s still a pastor because he’s the first dude who was musically gifted but theologically deep. He knew that text. I mean he just quoting the whole ? like Proverbs, Psalm. First time we was talking, I knew he was different. He was quoting Zephaniah. I was like, “You quoting Zephaniah.” You know what I’m saying?

Ike:Me and Brita are Old Testament.

Rechab:One of my first things I learned. And my baby, people don’t know. We just made it through Genesis. It was one of our greatest series. I think it was just beautiful. And every Sunday, I mean every Saturday I’m like, “Babe, yo, this is my outline. What you thinking?” Because she an Old Testament head. “Have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? And that might be one too many illustrations.” And it’s just like easy money. When I say she has no desire to play front, she want to play back. She likes back, but she want to play back to the excellent degree. I don’t want to just be in the background just sitting there. I want to do work back there. Somebody got to be behind the cameras.

And yo, when I say when you see who people are, it’s beautiful. That’s intentionality. Here’s sovereignty though. When Ike came to the church we was in Philly, God bless me to be able to pour into him. So part of our story forever is I poured into Pastor Ike. When he became this super genius, everybody was shocked. I wasn’t though because I saw something in that dude day one.

Now here’s the crazy thing. I could be like, “I got one over you because I poured into you.” Quickly could be that, but that wouldn’t be being honest. You are better. You cast vision better. You got more vision. You got way more sight on how this thing’s supposed to come together because I don’t see it. I’m going to be so unstable. If it had been me, this church would be so unstable. The stability, the rock-solid conviction of that brother, and so it’s like it would be foolish for me to be like just because I want to be the leader. Now think about it though. He’s now the vision pastor. So naturally sovereignty, I got to come under that and then here comes—

Ann:It’s like husband, wife, which role is more important?

Rechab:Yes, yes.

Ann:They’re equally.

Rechab:Yes. And then here comes Pastor Meach with his—

Ann:Is he a shepherd?

Rechab:Like way more than us.

Ann:He’s your shepherd.

Rechab:Like way more than us though.

Ann:Yeah, I feel that.

Ike:Prophetic is why it just can’t be me. Nobody would get shepherd that.

Ann:We don’t have that gift either. So I can always feel it when it’s in the room.

Rechab:Shepherd, prophetic, administrative, all of those things. God has just blessed him in a tremendous amount of ways.

Arianysis:Yeah.

Rechab:If it would be so foolish for us to be like, “Well we was together before; you don’t get a voice.” Like “What?” You better. He’s just better.

Dave:I mean it’s crazy what just happened in the last three or four minutes. I’m watching humility, honor, honesty, from what Rechab just said about everybody in the room, it’s just like, wow, there it is. You’re able to honor and be humble enough to say they’re better. That is something that’s really rare.

Ann:It’s so rare.

Arianysis:This isn’t just, and I want to say this isn’t, this speech we’ve heard this too.

:That’s what I’m saying.

Arianysis:Yeah. So this isn’t just because of the podcast. We’re not putting this on, and this is like each one of us has this speech, our own version of this speech.

:Absolutely.

Arianysis:Do you know what I mean? And so this isn’t—

Ike:We just telling the truth.

Brittany:Exactly, so it’s not even a speech.

Ike:It’s just telling the truth. None of us can do what Meech does.

Dave:Okay, let me ask you this.

:It’s just a fact.

Dave:There’s a lot of people do not have this.

Ann:Oh, and they want it so much.

Dave:They’re watching and they’re like, “I want that. I’ve never been able to get that.” How do you help them get that? Because I’m guessing people are watching right now and there’s some going, “I’m in this; it’s beautiful,” or “I wasn’t, it got ugly and now I’m really hurt.” Or others are like, “I’ve never experienced what you guys talking about.” That’s why we’re talking about this. We want to help marriages have—you can’t do marriage without a community. You guys are modeling it but help people that can’t find it.

Ann:And just your illustration of your husband becoming better with a good friend. I remember it was my birthday—I think it was my birthday—

Dave:I don’t even know what she’s going to say.

Ann:My best friend’s husband is his best friend. So she’s like, “What did Dave get you for your birthday?” I’m like, “Well, money’s tight and he’s tight,” and Rob comes over—

Dave:Can we stop?

Ann:—and he says, “Dude, this is your girl. You go all out for your girl. What do you mean you’re going to get her little something?” I don’t even remember what, but he’s on him. I’m like ? and you changed. I could have said that all day long but when his brother and his best friend says it, you hear it.

Dave:Yeah. One night Rob and I are sitting at a high school basketball game of his daughter, alright. And he’s a big-time college football kicker at Iowa. He’s the all-time leading scorer kicker there. So he’s an athlete.

Ann:And he’s intense.

Dave:He’s sitting behind—and he’s intense and sharp business guy and he is going off on this ref so loud it was embarrassing. I’m like, “Dude, settle down.” “Whatever.” He just kept going. So after the game I called him, I said, dude, you are an embarrassment to the kingdom of God. You are an embarrassment as a man of God. You embarrassed your daughter because she’d be looking up like “Dad, settle down.” I’m trying to, he wouldn’t hear me.

I just felt like I have to be honest. And so I just said, “Dude, that is not how a Christian man acts. I mean, yeah, I agree. The ref was terrible, making terrible calls. That’s high school sports; get used to it, blah, blah, blah.” And I’ll never forget, he hung up, didn’t really receive it. Hung up and about an hour later he called back, he said, “Thank you brother. You were right. I was a jerk. I was an idiot. I embarrassed to everybody.”

Ann:—apologized to his daughter.

Dave:It was just that thing.

Ann:How do we get that?

Dave:How do you get that? Because that doesn’t happen without intentionality.

Demetrius:When I was young, the only translation—

Dave:You are young.

Demetrius:When I was like a baby. Well, funny thing, I’m the oldest of all this, but I’ll say when I was growing up, we only read the King James version. And so there’s a lot of King James version of verses I remember. There was one verse, I forget where it was, but it said to have friends show thyself friendly. And I think a lot of times people want something that they are not. And so let the Lord cultivate in you—

Dave:Good word.

Demetrius:—humility. You be a friend. You be a confidant. And then the Lord is just so faithful to reciprocate that. And I think oftentimes we try to get things that we are first not. And so because there’s a lot of work, even my insertion into this friendship group, I had insecurities.

Ann:They let you to the table.

Demetrius:They really did. And they had to be letting me in the table and then I had to actually sit at the table.

Ike:It’s good.

Demetrius:There’s insecurities. “Oh, we got ten years in stories, in history in Philly, in Iowa—

Dave:And they’re married.

Rechab:And they’re married and all that kind of stuff.

Demetrius:We had so many things that I could have easily allowed my insecurities and not had done the work to be able to sit at that table, which is why I talk to singles. We are one of the most forgotten people groups in the church and we actually represent a large percentage of the church. I am a pastor who is single. So I need, because again, we’ll say marriages need community. No, I need community. I need to be their children’s uncle. I need to be their friends. And I’ve never felt like the third wheel, which is something that’s very important as well.

I lived, when I first moved to Florida, I lived with Ike and Arie and it was like, I remember kind of the similar story to Arie. His first conversations with me were kind of like authoritative. And I was kind like “This man is bold.”

Arianysis:That he is.

Demetrius:When I say I’m single, single, like, single, single. By that time I had been living on my own for almost 20 years. It’s kind of like I remember him saying, “So God called you to Florida?” I’m like, “Yeah, yeah.” He was like, “So you going to wait in Alabama?” “Yep. That’s what it looks like.” Then he was like, “Well, why don’t you wait in Florida?” possibility. “Are you going to pray for manna and then humility?” He said, “No, I’m offering a bedroom.” And then it’s like I got to see Arie’s hospitality that reminded me of how I grew up. I grew up with a grandmother that we never had our own house. It’s like people were always there. And how she was even “Have you eaten? Do you have food?” I’m kind of like, “Sis, I’ve been an adult for 20 years, but—”

Ann:So sweet.

Demetrius:—I saw that as that’s my sister. And even they didn’t hide. It was just like they were just who they were. I was invited in the actual house. It was like, yeah, they were married, they had their own life and stuff, but I really did feel incorporated. I don’t have to call and say I’m headed there with all of them and that is huge. I just knock and show up. And that stuff is so important, especially for those of us who are single. We need to see this.

I need to be reminded of the selflessness that we see in marriage and then I would think they would need to be reminded of the sufficiency that’s in Christ from a person that don’t have the horizontal affirmation. I have it vertically and there is something to that. I had intimidations with both of them having great fathers, all of them having, it’s like I had those intimidations because my story was not the same, but I had to do the work personally to be able to have a seat at the table.

I’ve been corrected by them, challenged by them, “Hey, you’re too independent.” “You’re right. I’m trying to work on it.” Little things like that that I think people don’t—it sounds nice, and it sounds sweet, and the podcast sounds really cool, but the actual work to be in that kind of relationship is the same with Christianity. You have to die.

You have to pick up your cross and follow the Lord Jesus, even in friendships and we don’t. I think the church has under taught friendship. When Jesus is talking about unity, when He was like “That they may be one like we are one.” Pastor Ike said something in one of his sermons that I will never forget.

Rechab:So dope.

Demetrius:He said, “Can God, can Jesus get His prayer request answered?” Again, brilliant. I’m literally, that Sunday I said “Hah.” I was like—

Arianysis:The son of God.

Demetrius:I think us doing the hard work, it’s bloodshed, it’s uncomfortable conversations. One night we had a conversation that was six, seven hours into midnight hours talking about, what are your insecurities, what are your fears, what are your things?

Ann:So you’re real? You go deep.

Demetrius:We’re not hanging out. We’re fellowshipping.

Arianysis:Yeah, and I was going to say, I think that we as a church we can kind of this idea of well how do people do this? How do you enter into this relationship? We can overcomplicate it in a sense. Literally pick somebody and be committed to them. Literally, because it’s pick a couple.

And you can get into like, “Well, they don’t like the same things that I don’t like,” or “They do things differently,” or “I don’t know if—we have kids, they don’t have kids.” We didn’t have kids for the majority of our relationship, all of that, but if you’re committed to the relationship, if you are, “I’m not leaving this table regardless of your messiness in my organization or your lifestyle or whatever or what you like,” it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day, we know, we see it as Jesus is at work within whatever family unit that you’re anticipating getting into a relationship.

And so if Jesus is there, if Jesus is at work, however it is that they live their life, they have something that I need in order for me to know Jesus better because Jesus is at work in their life in a way that it’s not at work in my life. And so therefore I don’t care if they like to go to Disney every single weekend and I like to stay at home and read a book, I am willing to enter into that lifestyle because I understand that Jesus is at work there and I need that.

Ann:What if those people that I want this, but they’re not willing to be humble or honest. What if they’re not—they don’t have the three H’s: humility, honesty, and honor. So what if they aren’t willing to be honest?

Ike:Yeah. Then you’re going to have a fake unity.

Ann:Right, so do you just have that conversation?

Rechab:Yeah. I think the beautiful thing is prayer. I talk all the time to folks. I love the scripture so much, but I always remind people I am not a disciplined reader. I’ve always hated reading. God gave me a delight in the scriptures that I did not have. And if God can grant you something that you don’t have in terms of desire, then he can grant you what you don’t have in terms of desire. And so this desire for friendship, I think it begins on your knees like, Lord, I actually want what they’re talking about. I actually want that. I go get it. And Lord, show me how to partner with you in running after who you’ve already placed in front of me. And I actually think for most listeners, God already puts somebody on your mind, in your heart. This is the scariest part of prayer though. You may, many people already have somebody who they would call friends, but they’re hearing this, “This don’t sound like us.” The scariest thing is like why? And I ask the Lord why? And oftentimes it is because you haven’t crossed over into, through that awkward barrier where you’ve had to challenge each other

And it had to go five hours, and you can’t leave the table, you haven’t gone. And those things are intentional, and we could have let it sit too. We could just let—be mad and just—

Ann:You would prefer to not get into it.

Arianysis:I would rather be the king in my own kingdom and come up with my own narrative and just sit in my own bitterness and anger. It feels good. It’s righteous. It’s great. This isn’t fun.

Ike:Until you’re lonely.

Arianysis:Until you’re lonely, good.

Dave:I mean in some ways what I’m hearing is that’s the honesty part. If you don’t go there when you know, feel it or think it, you’re not being honest. You’re holding something. Maybe you get in the car, and you talk to your wife and that’s not honest because you’re talking about some of your best friends, but you’re not willing to look them in the eye.

The first men’s group I tried to get in in Detroit when I first moved to Detroit way before you guys were ever born. I moved to Detroit to be Detroit Lions chaplain. I knew nobody and I didn’t have a church. I hadn’t started—five years later I started a church. So I knew I needed community. We all know that scripturally and I need men.

So I found these guys in this other church that I sort attended; they meet on whatever. So I go, start meeting with three or four and I was like the whole time, “I don’t think anybody’s getting really honest, they’re just being nice, and you can feel it.”

So I’m not kidding. It was fourth or fifth week and I still don’t know them very well. I’ve told this here before, but I remember I walked in and at some point, I said, “Hey,” and I think it was like six guys. I said, “I got to be honest with you. I struggled this week with something.” And they’re like, “What’s that?” I go “The Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue came. My wife always gets it before I see it and I never see it. And it was in the mailbox, and I opened it up and I looked at it for a minute. I was wrong and I told my wife, but I just need to say that to you guys.”

And I am not kidding. The room went like this, “Are you kidding me?” I’m like, “What?” “You looked at it?” “Yeah, not long, but yeah, I did. And that’s why I’m saying it. I shouldn’t have done it.” I go, “You guys, have anybody here ever struggled?” “Never. We never look at that. We would never consider that. I can’t believe you. What kind of man are you?”

Ann:This is back in the day when the church wasn’t honest,

Dave:This was like—

Arianysis:Who are these humans?

Dave:Exactly, so I got in the car. I drove home and I said, “That’s not my group.” You know why? I thought they’re not being honest. I don’t know, maybe they’re perfect men. I’m guessing they were hiding something. And I started looking for other groups and part of me is one of the lessons there was sometimes it doesn’t work the first group you find. Find it. I found my guys, one of them was Rob, one of them was John, one of them was—they were my guys for 30 years. I did all their kids’ weddings as their pastor. But sometimes it’s like this isn’t an honest group and they’re not going to be. They’re not going to go there. So obviously you’re talking about an honesty that’s raw.

Demetrius:What you just said was actually a great point. It’s like—

Dave:Do you hear that? I said something great.

Ann:You always do.

Demetrius:Amazing point, and I think for those of us who are Christians, we can have an over romanticized view of each other as if we are not imperfect humans. And sometimes friendships just don’t work.

Dave:Sometimes they don’t.

Demetrius:I learned, here’s the interesting thing, a lot of my earlier friendship, what we even call failures, I don’t even know if it’s a failure, it’s just life. It’s like friendships that I had; I’ve learned from every single friendship I’ve ever had. And that has been brought into this friendship because again, we bring who we are into the group and it’s like had I not remembered like, “Ooh, last time Demetrius, you actually stored something in your heart for three months and it turned into accusation and all of this other kind of stuff, I’m finna take the opportunity to be like, no, we getting this stuff done quick.” Because when you hold onto that stuff, our God is so much about truth.

Ann:Don’t let the sun go down on your anger. Don’t let the devil have a foothold.

Demetrius:Foothold, absolutely.

Ike:But watch this, watch this. If I have a friendship that doesn’t quite work out and I still am carrying bitterness toward them, now I come to my friends and I’m getting things off my chest. And if they support that, then it’s all types of division.

Dave:Now it’s gossip.

Ike:Now it’s gossip and all. And that’s creating our friendship. That’s not friends.

Rechab:That’s not friend.

Arianysis:That is literally like that trauma bonding. That’s that trauma bonding.

Dave:So what do you do with that?

Ike:We got to check that.

Dave:You’ve got a thing with somebody.

Ike:Okay, so I know you got to get this off your chest to some degree. You have to be human and complain about what your frustration. So you do it and I listen. “Alright, cool. Did you talk to him?” Simple question. It’s just a simple question.

Arianysis:I have literally had Pastor Meech tell me, “You’ve got two weeks to talk to this person.”

Demetrius:Yeah.

Ann:I love it.

Arianysis:Okay.

Demetrius:Real talk.

Arianysis:And I had to talk to this person. I vented; I shared. Am I crazy? Am I not? You need to go talk to them. So I humbly obeyed honor, what they told me to do, because I trust these individuals.

Ike:And that’s the key because most people, or I should say a lot of times that’s the thing, people are unwilling to go to someone and have a conversation.

Dave:It’s hard.

Ike:It’s very hard.

Dave:It could be hard, it could be awkward, it can be all those things.

Ike:You can be isolated. It’s very easy.

Rechab:That’s good Pastor Ike. And you wouldn’t have done that if you didn’t care about our sanctification.

Ike:Yeah, exactly.

Demetrius:I care. We care about each other’s holiness. I remember I had some strange stuff going on for a season and Rechab was like, “Yeah, you need to apologize to this person.” He literally told me to find a fault. Now for me, I’m like my therapist who I’ve been with for five years—God bless you so much. He has been very beneficial in this friendship group as well. And they’ve never met him, but literally he was telling me like “Demetrius, you have an internal lawyer,” and that’s a part of that prophetic stuff. It is either black or white, it is right or wrong. There is no gray area. Then we go through Genesis. I’m like, “There’s a lot of gray area.” And I started giving myself nuance.

I started giving myself and then because again that goes back to the point: when you start receiving the love of God and His patience and then you start being patient with yourself, then you start being patient with other people.

When you receive correction from the Lord, you start being honest with yourself and then you can be that with other people. And Rechab was like “Find fault and just take extreme ownership.” I’m like, “Absolutely not.” And then a couple days later I sent the voice note and was like—

Rechab:Oh, it was quicker than that. It was the same day.

Demetrius:Because again I was like the evil one would not tell me to do that. Sometimes we got to wait on things we hear. The evil one—you know I didn’t have to pray about that.

Ike:That’s so good.

Rechab:That was literally what the scriptures would say and it’s like I had to learn that. I remember one time Brit, we were having a conversation, and it was like we were playing a game and then the conversation got turned and Brit don’t call nobody out. So day she called me out. I was like, “Sis is right. I’m not even giving no rebuttal because she don’t call nobody out.”

Arianysis:Kinda like a silent assassin.

Ike:Silent assassin and silences people.

Rechab:She don’t say a lot.

Arianysis:And I would also say there’s also the correction that happens just by living life with each other. There have been times. So I just, being around Brittany, I don’t even have to ask. The Lord will convict me on so many things on how I love my husband and how I even parent Lily and her ten months old and my patience and my relationship with the Lord in just her being herself. She’ll just talk about this missionary that she’s reading about and how it’s convicted her or how she loves.

I have been in a room with her and all four of her children are crawling all over her asking for her attention while she’s having a conversation with me and she never loses it. And I’m just like, “How do you do this?” And it’s so convicting. I’ve seen her submit and love and honor and encourage her husband on so many levels and I am always convicted, and she doesn’t have to open her mouth or say anything. It’s just the way she lives her life the same way—

Ann:That’s discipleship.

Arianysis:Yeah, that’s the mutual discipleship that happens just being around them. He talks about me being a communicator of the Word. I wouldn’t be that had it not been for the time that I’ve spent with him. My whole understanding I come from now we’re going to say bad words, but I come from egalitarian background and all that kind of stuff and my understanding of women’s roles and gender roles. Meech had spoken such a profound word that broke a wall for me. And it’s just because of being around them. And so it’s just living life that has—

Ike:That’s real.

Arianysis:—has just changed us and has made us—that’s where a lot of the correction even happens.

Demetrius:Absolutely.

Arianysis:It doesn’t have to be these deep conversations. It’s just living life, having conversations.

Dave:Alright, I’ve got a question. In fact, it’s such a good question, we’re going to make this part of the bonus material. We have people that support FamilyLife financially. We call them monthly partners or financial FamilyLife partners. It’s any amount monthly, but they’re in the club. It’s not a club, it’s a partner, it’s an army—

Ann:It’s a family.

Dave:—that says we want to support this. And so if you’re not supporting us, the podcast ends. Sorry, but you could give ten dollars right now and you’re going to hear this unbelievable question that I just came up with. Now you’re like, “Okay, I’m waiting in anticipation.”

Ann:I know. Let’s jump back in. What could this look like with singles? Because I feel like the conversation so often can go to the married couple, but in the church, what could that look like for a woman to encourage a man or a man to encourage a woman?

Dave:Or singles to be a part of something you’re a part of?

Demetrius:Absolutely.

Dave:This is really rare.

Demetrius:Ironically in 2025, that conversation has so much tension just because of what’s been going on in our culture. But the purity of it. I’ve been blessed to have incredible sisters in the faith. I call them my Mary and Marthas, where it’s like I’ve been encouraged, I’ve been uplifted, prayed for. And even for me, some of my biggest champions are like my sisters like, “Pastor Meech, you anointed. God has called you to this and done that” because, and I think the cross-gender friendships are super important, super important in the body of Christ. But we also just got to have wisdom and boundaries and—

Ann:Purity.

Demetrius:There are things that, yeah, and purity. There’re things as a single man that I don’t even do with my sisters here who I love deeply. There are boundaries and we don’t like that B word, but it’s like there are things that we do to help. I see it as protecting my sisters and then them protecting me.

I remember one of my single friends, the moment she started dating, our friendship changed. The moment—in a good, healthy way is what I’m saying. And the engaged married, and I remember when the guy came into the picture, it was almost like “You’re quoting this Demetrius a lot.” And the thing was I was like, “Oh bro.” He and I, now we’re brothers and it’s like I sang them down the aisle and stuff like that. And it’s like it’s intentional. It is godly. It’s pure.

And even to this day, even in this circle, I remember Rechab one day was like, “Yo bro, encourage Brit.” You encourage and I’ve gotten to encourage my sisters and all of that kind of stuff yet with boundaries. And it’s not even weird amongst them and we need it. We need cross-gender friendships, but we must do so in a godly manner, in a respectful manner. I think oftentimes when you do the whole, you’re fighting for something outside of respecting godly boundaries, that’s when it can cross the line.

Ann: That’s good.

Arianysis:I would also add, I’m so sorry because you asked for single ladies in the church and how they can encourage, and this just came to mind—if I shouldn’t say this, edit it out please—don’t date them to salvation. Connect them with somebody. If you see men in the church, motivate and encourage them to connected instead of you being the connection. We see that just way too much. So I just felt like it needed to be said.

Ann:That’s good.

Rechab:And to that point, the point I was going to make is since we talked about the idea of submission, it is important that we understand that submission isn’t a woman thing. Christ submitted himself to the Father.

Arianysis:And to Mary and Joseph.

Rechab:And to his own parents that he created by the way. Submission isn’t like a woman thing, otherwise our Messiah wouldn’t have done it. And I think far too often we only think of submission as a woman thing, which is why husbands don’t know how to pastor their wives into a desire to submit because we’ve never done it ourselves. If you’ve never had the look a dude in the face who’s telling you, no, you’re not going to go over here, but you’re going to go pray for the next two hours. If you never had to hear a dude say you, I need you to go find fault and take ownership of what you, if you’ve never had to say yes when you wanted to say no to an earthly figure, but you’re demanding it out of your wife, you’re going to demand it in a different way. But when you’ve had to do it yourself, and you know what it’s like, man,

All of us have had men that we’ve had to say, yo, if they tell me, unless I know it’s violating scripture, even if I don’t understand it, my yes is on the table because I trust them. That’s what submission is. It’s an interesting coming under and it’s like if you haven’t done that yourself, ain’t no way you should be leading a woman to do that. So I would say for the brothers, nah, don’t just let submission be their thing. Find some dudes to submit to.

Ann:Because it’s not a power trip.

Rechab:No, it’s not.

Ann:It’s a servant’s heart.

Rechab:Absolutely. And it’s something we need. God rigged it to where we need shepherds. And so yo, these brothers, they can tell me no. And I got to be like, “Okay.” That’s a crazy thing. And we all got the same swag. “Nah, nobody going to tell me nothing.” All of us come with that. Literally, that’s all it’s, but yeah, I think dudes learning how to submit will, I think, be great help for even the ladies who are coming.

Dave:What a way to end.

Rechab:Wow.

Dave:Seriously, thank you. This has been rich. You know what I was thinking, how we should end. Why don’t you sing us out, man? You got something. Yes, you got something.

Rechab:He always does.

Demetrius:[Singing]

Ann:That was so good. Man, I want to be at your table.

Hey, thanks for watching and if you like this episode—

Dave:You better like it.

Ann:—just hit that like button.

Dave:And we’d like you to subscribe, so all you got to do is go down and hit the subscribe. I can’t say the word subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. I don’t think I can say this word.

Ann:Like and subscribe.

Dave:Look at that; you say it so easy. Subscribe; there it goes.

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