The Birds and The Bees | Mary Flo Ridley & Megan Michelson

Episode Transcript

FamilyLife Today® with Dave and Ann Wilson; Podcast Transcript

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Shame-Free Sex Talks to Have with Your Kids

Guests:Mary Flo Ridley and Megan Michelson

Release Date:July 22, 2025

Megan:He knew the boundaries. And even if it was a silly playful slap, it’s still not appropriate. So I said, “I’m so glad you told me that. I’ll make sure. I’ll talk to Mrs. So-and-so.” And then “What are some things you could say on the playground if he does that again?” And he goes, “Yeah, I told him ‘You do not touch my penis.’” I said, “Well, there you go.” I said, “I’m so proud of you for using your voice in that way.”

Ann:We’re recording today in a different place.

Dave:We’re in Dallas, Texas. I say that really loud because everything’s bigger in Texas. Am I right?

Megan:You’re right.

Ann:We’re at the NRB conference.

Dave:Our guests have literally told me to be quiet, so I’ll be really quiet.

Megan:And just because someone told me to be quiet; trying to follow the rule.

Dave:Yeah, we’ve already been yelled at for being too loud.

Megan:I’ve already been yelled at.

Ann:Is it wrong that it makes me want to be louder? What is it about me? It’s that sinful part of me. I’m sorry. It’s right there.

Megan:It’s right there.

Dave:I love that about you.

Ann:No, you don’t.

Dave:I do.

Ann:You do not.

Dave:I love being rebellious sometimes.

Ann:But today’s going to be fun.

Dave:Yeah.

Ann:Because we’re going to have talk about—

Dave:Fun; is that the right word?—fun.

Ann:It’s going to be fun because I really like these two, but also because what we’re talking about today is something every single parent with kids under their roof need and want this conversation.

Dave:Yeah. And you guys look like mother/daughter, but you’re not.

Mary Flo:This is true.

Megan:We’re not.

Dave:Right. Mary Flo and Megan are with us, and I don’t know if you like this title, you’re the Birds and the Bees Girls.

Mary Flo:That’s right.

Megan:Yes, we are.

Dave:Did you come up with that name?

Ann:You seem proud of it too.

Megan:Yeah, we did come up with that.

Mary Flo:Well, obviously the words have been around for a long time in association with the topic, but it was such a delight to us when we were forming our partnership that that name, that domain name, had never been taken. So we are the Birds and the Bees.

Dave:Okay. Tell us about this partnership. How did this happen? What do you do?

Megan:So Mary Flo, well, you can kind of tell the backstory because this is not new for you.

Mary Flo:No, this started in 1986, an assignment that I had to teach parents how to talk to their kids about sex. I got that through the Dallas Junior League, and it was just a training workshop for the members of the league. And I didn’t want to take it because my parents had never spoken to me about sex. I didn’t know what this looked like.

Dave:Like never?

Mary Flo:Never.

Dave:Never.

Mary Flo:Never, not a word. Lovely parents, very responsible and loving and happy childhood, but nothing about sex. And so at that time I had a four-year-old and a one-year-old, and the four-year-old was asking, “How did that baby get out of there?” And I thought, “Can I tell you? I don’t know. I know but can I tell you?”

Ann:I’m glad you know.

Mary Flo:Yes, I did know. But simultaneously I was a trainer with the league, and they wanted someone to do a training workshop about that. I said, “No, that won’t be me.” And they said, “Well, you know what? We’ll send you to Washington DC and they’ll train you.” And I said, “Does that mean room service? Because I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old. I’ll go.”

So I went and I got a great big notebook all about sexually transmitted diseases and a lot of workshops on safe sex. And I came home, and I told the league, “I can’t do this. This is not where my heart is, but if you’ll give me six months, I want to do some research because now I’m very interested in what I’m going to say to my own children. So if you’ll give me some time, I’ll give you a program. But I’m throwing this away. This is not what I want to do.” So I thought I was preparing for one talk in that one moment, and here we are.

Ann:Look what God did.

Mary Flo:Look what God did. He always has a bigger story.

Ann:And all you were looking for was a little rest, relaxation—

Mary Flo:I wanted some room service.

Ann:and room service and God’s like, “You go get that. I have something else in store for you.

Mary Flo:And so ten years ago, actually, Megan and I have known each other her whole life. Her mother is one of my dearest friends and my daughter and Megan grew up together, so we’ve known each other. But she was a teacher.

Megan:So I didn’t know what Mrs. Ridley did. I thought she was just a lovely mother who made delicious cakes and was just minding her own business. But after college came back to Dallas. I was teaching middle school, so I was in the throes of middle school.

Dave:So you’re both teachers at one point?

Ann:Interesting.

Dave:Not the same school?

Megan:No.

Dave:Alright.

Megan:Very different paths. I was teaching middle school. I didn’t have children of my own and I was kind of overwhelmed by how sexualized their culture was becoming and the conversations they were having and the lack of response from parents and teachers. And anyways, lo and behold, one day I’m passing out flyers and it says, parents come learn how to talk to your kids about sex with Mary Flo Ridley. I thought, “Mrs. Ridley?”

Ann:Wait, Mary Flo, this was in public schools. You were teaching this. So you get this.

Megan:So I get this flyer and I’m thinking, “Jill’s mom? I did not know she was a sex—what?” And then combined with what I was concerned with my own students, I thought, “Well, I’ve got to go to this.” And so I go that night, this was now 15 years ago, I think.

Mary Flo:Yes, that’s right.

Megan:And I sat in the back to check in all the parents and I’m taking copious notes, and I was just overwhelmed. I was like, I just thought “Every single parent has got to hear this.” I mean that was—looking back now, seeing how the Lord’s taken this, that was the beginning of Him putting this message on my heart and this resounding feeling of, everyone’s got to hear this, everyone’s got to hear this. And so I left that night just telling my husband everything. We had no children at the time. I think he was like, “Okay, sure, good idea.”

Dave:I mean, was he really interested at all or was he just like—

Megan:Oh, he’s very kind so I think he was like, “Yeah, that’s great. We don’t have kids. And I don’t know.” Anyways, flash forward years later, I do have children of my own and I hear her speak again at church. I’m taking all these notes. I go on a girls’ trip, I think the next weekend. I brought my notes with me. I made all my friends sit down. I said, “Everyone get a glass of wine and sit down. I’ve got something to say,” and I just read my notes. “Everyone’s got to hear this, everyone.”

And then another year goes by, I have two kids at this point, and we run into each other. Or maybe her daughter, and her daughter says, “My mom’s kind of wanting to step back a little bit or have someone help take it over and bring it to the new generation, but I don’t really want to do this and neither does my sister because it’s a weird gig.” I just felt like, “I think I want to do that.” And I said that, and she was “Really? Well, I’ll tell my mom.” And I was like, “Yeah, tell her.”

I think I was actually pregnant with my second at the time, so nothing made sense. We lived out of the country for a second, so it was nothing made sense with the timing. But we got together, and I’ll never forget it, we sat in our kitchen, and I said, “I think I want to work with you.” And she was like, “I’ve been praying for someone for ten years to take over.”

Dave:Really?

Megan:Instantly, and that’s when I came home and I told my husband, I said, “Oh, guess what? I want to work with Mary Flo.” And he was just like, “Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.”

Dave:Really. He wasn’t resistant.

Megan:No.

Dave:He was like, “You’re going to go around the world and talk about sex and I’m okay with that.”

Megan:Yeah. He likes to tell people that his wife’s in the sex business.

Mary Flo:So does my husband. They’re just bragging. They’re different.

Ann:Megan, what was it when you first heard it that you thought, everyone needs to hear this. What’s “this”? What was it in you that clicked and that you even sat all your girlfriends down and you went through the notes?

Megan:I look back, I’m like, “What? Why are they still friends with me?” But they are. They’re all very dear loyal friends and two of them live out of town and whenever I go to their town to speak, they still come. I’m like, “Y’all do not need to come. You’ve heard this so many times,” but anyways.

I think it is such an overwhelming topic for parents and there is such a fear in this topic and kind of what you were saying at the beginning; I have a unique desire in me to kind of push back against things. And so I think I like that part of, why are we so afraid of this? Why aren’t we talking about this? Why are we letting the world dominate this topic when particularly as believers, we have so much to say? Why are we letting them win?

And so I think it was really inspiring to me of, there is such a better way to do this. And it made so much sense. There was such a simplicity to the curriculum that was taught too, of this idea of empowering parents was very exciting to me: of hey, there is an awesome way to do this and it’s very easy to digest and very easy to take these action steps and it’s a game changer, so why wouldn’t you want to share this with other parents? And so I think that was what was really exciting to me.

And then of course being a young mom myself, having these little kids thinking, “Well, I want to do this for my kids, but I also want everyone else to do this too.” It triples the impact if our community’s doing it, if the world at large is doing it, the kids that my children will marry one day were raised this way. So I think it was just really empowering to hear the message.

Dave:And I would guess most Christian parents would agree with you that “I want to be in the conversation. I want to have it.” But I also think you’re right. We’re afraid.

Mary Flo:That’s exactly right.

Dave:So I know you’ve thought about this a lot. Why are Christian parents afraid? And not even just Christian parents, all parents seem to be a little bit afraid of this topic. And so we sort of say, “Okay, the world’s going to teach you, that’s okay, but we want to be the voices.” So where’s the fear? What is it?

Mary Flo:Well, I think the fear is on many levels. First of all, maybe they were never spoken to, so they don’t even know what this looks like or sounds like.

Dave:Okay, here’s a quiz. You weren’t.

Mary Flo:I was not.

Dave:Were you? Did your parents talk to you?

Megan:Yeah, a little.

Dave:Really? Yours?

Mary Flo:Your mom went to my class?

Ann:No, mine didn’t.

Dave:Her mom was in your class. Oh really?

Mary Flo:Well, yes.

Ann:So she did have something to say.

Mary Flo:She had a little bit of a background.

Megan:We had something to say, but I wouldn’t say it was a completely ongoing conversation, but I would say my family of origin at large was very open in their communication about all things. So that was I think really helpful and shaped so much of who I am today.

Ann:Did you have anyone teach you?

Dave:No. I mean I had a dad who had girlfriends, so I saw things I probably shouldn’t have seen as a little boy. And then my brothers tried to talk to me about it, but no, it was like—

Ann:And there was porn in our house growing up, so that’s kind of the teacher.

Mary Flo:That was kind of the teacher.

Dave:Yes. So that’s part of the fear. They never had anybody do it. What else?

Mary Flo:Right. Well, I think another fear is they think their past will come up. And so we do tell parents this is no longer about you and your past, but your children and their future. So parents just need to realize, “Okay, this is no longer about me.” It’s like, where are my children and where do I want them to be? How do I want them to understand what sex is? What’s the main thing I want them to know about sex if they’re growing up in our family?

Dave:I mean, we got a hundred questions we’re going to ask you, but you brought that one up and somebody’s watching going, “Well, should I tell my past?” When our youngest was in our home and the other two were in college, it was pretty interesting because now we’re just sitting at the dinner table with one.

Ann:And with three sons, they didn’t ask us very many questions about our past but the youngest did.

Dave:But I remember Cody looked at us, as soon as they’re out of the house, he literally looked at us one night and goes, “Hey, so did you guys have sex before marriage?” We’re like, “Oh boy.”

Mary Flo:So glad you asked me that.

Dave:Be honest, should we not be honest? And it was a real hesitation. We were honest, but we didn’t know exactly, should we? So we got the experts, the B and the B girls.

Mary Flo:B and B girls.

Ann:Is that new?

Dave:That’s my tag.

Mary Flo:We have a new name.

Megan:Yeah, I like it.

Mary Flo:Well, actually you should think about it, “How am I going to react?” I anticipate you’re not going to get that question from really young children. So go ahead and lay a lot of layers down of information for them, become the expert, teach them a lot of things. And it’s all out there starting with very simple steps in lots of small conversations but anticipate the day when that happens. And what we tell parents is: you don’t really have to tell them the details of your life, but if you have learned something from that—

Ann:Oh, that’s good advice.

Mary Flo:—share your heart.

Dave:And that’s what we did.

Mary Flo:“Yeah, I’m not going to go into the details of my life, but what I know from my experience is this…” And so consider what that conversation might look like and that’s the valuable part of what you can share with them.

Ann:That’s really good. I think we shared our regrets and the repercussions and the consequences of our decisions.

Mary Flo:I think that’s beautiful.

Ann:You do?

Mary Flo:Yes.

Ann:Hopefully we got an A.

Megan:Because I think that could make a powerful impact.

Ann:Me too.

Megan:But I think so many variables—the age of your child, their personality, the way they take in information—that’s something only parents would really know if it’s the right time to share or not. But it sounds like that was the right thing to do.

Dave:So how does a parent get over that fear?

Megan:Start small.

Dave:Start small.

Megan:Start small.

Dave:Like when they’re one years old. Is that what you mean small or what do you mean small?

Mary Flo:When they know a body part.

Megan:Right. So we would say at Birds and Bees, our target audience is parents of kids ages one through ten. So we really encourage parents to get rid of this idea of the talk, which is that one time conversation.

Dave:It’s not a talk.

Megan:Right. It is multiple age-appropriate conversations. And so that can start when your kids are very little with using anatomically correct words and teaching your child that penis and vagina are not scary bad words.

Dave:We just said penis and vagina on FamilyLife Today.

Megan:That’s right.

Mary Flo:Well there you go.

Dave:Way to go.

Megan:And I might say it again.

Dave:There you go.

Mary Flo:You’re welcome to join us.

Megan:Because these are not bad words. Who made those parts?

Dave:Right.

Megan:God made those parts.

Ann:No different than a hand and a shoulder.

Dave:Don’t be afraid—

Megan:And don’t be afraid.

Dave:—even if it feels awkward and uncomfortable.

Megan:Yeah.

Ann:Do you think—

Dave:Use the right terms.

Ann:—kids feel our awkwardness or—

Mary Flo:Absolutely.

Megan:They’ll sense that. And so that’s why part of the reason of starting young is for the children to understand this is something we talk about in our home. And then as a parent, you are realizing, “I’m becoming more comfortable with this topic as they’re aging, so by the time they’re eight, nine or ten, we’ve been talking about this for years.”

And there’s so much more than just talking about sex and the actual act of conception. We cover all things for body parts, body boundaries, birth, babies, periods, puberty. I mean there’s so many little conversations that you can be having, but ultimately for your children’s protection, it’s very important to use these words to prevent abuse from happening. There is so much gray area in this topic and something we say a lot is “The devil loves the darkness,” and I think he really likes to keep us in this quiet dark. And we are essentially encouraging parents to just turn the lights on and say, “This is something we talk about.”

Ann:Mary Flo, have you seen a difference in our culture? You started at 1986. What’s different today than it was back in 1986?

Mary Flo:I would say the biggest change that I’ve seen is the gender confusion and homosexuality was spoken of and a lot of other things, but the gender confusion is as a new angle on that in the world of raising your children.

Ann:And are you two addressing that in Birds and Bees?

Mary Flo:We don’t have it in our curriculum, but we have it in our live programs in the q and a is where it usually turns up. But basically the concepts that we’re giving parents are an anchor, and that’s what I feel like is what children need. They need to be anchored in their gender and that can be added so easily. Just talking about how by God’s design, you were made to be a girl who will grow up to be a woman. And there’s simple things you can say to anchor them in their identity in Christ, in their identity as a woman or as a man.

Ann:So as they get older, that’s already an anchor that they’re not wondering, “Am I? What am I?” Is that what you’re saying?

Mary Flo:That’s to give them some weight to that, to affirm them in that and to give them that anchor.

Dave:Now have you dealt with parents that have a middle school girl, boy or high school and they tried to do the anchor and yet now they’re at a stage where their daughter or son feels like they’re transitioning or should?

Ann:A pulling on the anchor.

Dave:Have you dealt with that and what do you say?

Megan:Not really with our group. I mean we target those parents of preschool, elementary school kids. And so in that audience, it really has not come up that often. I would say that I think that also has a lot of fear behind it—

Dave:Yeah.

Megan:—and from parents. And so I think we would encourage parents whenever it does come up with the really younger kids, because that’s typically who we deal with, is for parents to remain that calm anchor is a great word. But I think so often parents out of fear will hear something from their child and they’ll react with it.

Ann:Yes.

Megan:So then we’re both going like this.

Ann:That’s what I do.

Megan:And that’s not helpful.

Mary Flo:You know that feeling.

Ann:I do have that feeling. I try not to do it, but it’s easy to react.

Megan:Oh, for sure because that’s fearful. “What happens? What if?” I think what we’re called to do is to be that anchor and anchored in truth of, “I understand you feel this way, but what do we know is truth? This is how.” And also to kind of open up the dialogue of, “Well, what does it mean to be a girl or a boy? It does not mean you have to like pretty princess and pink.” We can expand our definition of masculinity and femininity and that looks different and kind of open the dialogue through that. But I think as parents just to be based in or rooted in, and that’s so many of your conversations, just this phrase that comes up with little kids of, “How is that baby going to be born?” “Well, there’s a special place that mommies have and it’s called a uterus and only mommies have that special part.” That’s just a fact. “How come daddies can’t be pregnant?” And so I think these are little conversations that are help establishing that truth.

Mary Flo:Yeah, exactly. And also to really affirm that there are two genders; you can pull in the biology. “There are these chromosomes, and it is one of the first things you can know. That’s why you can know the gender before the baby’s born. You can know that because it’s in their DNA and your DNA is in every cell of your body. That can never be changed.” So just to put it in their mind that feelings are things that change but biology is unchangeable. The biology is unchangeable. So even in the scientific wonderings of children. Also just reading great stories of strong girls—

Ann:Yeah.

Mary Flo:—girls that aren’t girly girls—Anne of Green Gables, she was always competing with the boys—and just let them know of the great artists who were men. We have so given kind of a comic book look of what is a girl and what is a boy.

Ann:It’s so funny when you were just sharing that as you were teaching the chromosomes, I was leaning in and I thought, that’s what Megan seeing. You draw us in that style of teaching. Every parent right now is thinking, “I wish they’d come to my house and teach my kids,” but I love it.

Dave:It sounds like they can on video.

Megan:That’s right.

Ann:I think, and parents are wanting this more than ever. I’m glad that we’re talking about this topic all week.

Dave:Yeah, this is a whole week that we’re talking about sex. You’re one of several days.

Mary Flo:Okay.

Dave:And again, it isn’t like the talk for the year, but it’s saying it should be ongoing. So let me ask this, is it every day?—once you start this conversation?

Megan:For parents to have these conversations?

Dave:With kids if they bring up a question and they start at age, what age, could be any age?

Megan:I would say I’m kind of in the thick of it, personally. My kids are six, nine and eleven. And I would say, I mean you’re not talking about sex every day. I think parents need to understand that we’re talking about the big umbrella of birds and bees. But I mean, I have a daughter and two boys, and I feel like we’re setting body boundaries a lot. “Don’t touch your brother’s penis. That’s a private part. We don’t touch somebody else’s private part.”

Ann:Yeah, let’s talk about that.

Megan:These are lines that we’re drawing all the time. So yeah, I feel like I’m talking about it a lot.

Mary Flo:Well, “What is this in your purse, Mommy?” And so that’s an opportunity to explain periods. It’s just there’s something happened, privacy and boundaries and vocabulary. And then there are children who never ask a question.

Ann:Yes.

Mary Flo:And parents think they’re off the hook, like, “I’m so lucky. I got one that’s not asking.” But honestly, you’re not off the hook. You need to then bring the topic up.

One way we like to give parents is to say, “Sweetheart, have you ever wondered exactly how that baby got out of there?” Maybe you take a meal to a friend who had a baby, and they know that they were pregnant last week and now here’s this baby, but the child says nothing. And so you can introduce it if you think it’s the right time. If you think this is a good—what we want to do is put this back in the parents’ realm. This is what parents do.

And so many times parents want to just outsource it to the church or outsource it to the school or hope they never ask. As parents, they’re running away from this topic when actually you can’t believe how helpful it is to walk towards them with the information. Because then it’s like, now they know, and they heard it from me. But like Megan said, with little pieces. Don’t say, “Now that I’ve told you this, I have to tell you everything.” Just let it flow more naturally.

Dave:And yet I’m sitting here thinking there’s some parents, and I’m thinking maybe a lot of parents, that are just so uncomfortable, they would never say, “Don’t touch your brother’s penis.” Like “Whoa, I said”—you know what I’m saying? It’s just that uncomfortable and you’re so comfortable with it.

Megan:Yeah, that’s right.

Dave:Is it just as you start to have these conversations and say it once or twice you get more comfortable?

Megan:I think so.

Dave:I’ve been comfortable, so it isn’t me, but I’ve been around parents. It’s like they hear any sexual term, and they lock up.

Megan:And that’s where I think kids will follow your lead. And if that’s a secret part or shameful part, if God forbid something does happen or if there’s a line that’s crossed, your children do not have the language or vocabulary or comfort level to come to you as their safe person. And so I think something that we do encourage parents, in lots of ways, but one of the reasons we really encourage parents to kind of get over that fear or get over that discomfort is for their safety. And most parents can get behind safety and to say, if your child, if you want to protect your child, you have to empower your child to let them know, “This is my penis. This is why we cover it up and nobody can touch this, look at it or take pictures.”

Ann:Parents just thought like, “Okay, can you tell us exactly what to say?” Just because I have sexual abuse in my background, nobody ever shared anything. And I think parents are wondering today, “How do I protect them from not only a predator, but from porn?” There’s so much—

Dave:—family member.

Ann:Yeah, family member. And that’s usually where it happens—cousins, whatever. When do we have that conversation? What does it sound like?

Megan:Conversations, you know we’re talking about it all the time. And I think again, back to our little, we have a phrase we use a lot called “Drip, drip, drip,” which is lots of little drips in their sponge because ultimately that is what protects them. But you asked a question earlier of, are you talking about this every day? Again, I don’t want parents to think I am sitting my children down every day and think, “Well, the penis goes in the vagina. This is how babies are made.” We’re not doing that every day, okay.

But what we are talking about very often is body boundaries. Friends come over to play, “Guys, let’s keep the doors open while we play.” Or where the neighbor kids are over, “Guys, we’re not playing doctors. It’s not appropriate. We don’t look at other people’s private parts.” You as a parent are speaking out into this, you’re speaking up and you’re saying these things out loud. Because what happens so often is parents will see something or get so uncomfortable, “Close the door,” “Get out of here,” “You’re going home,” “You’re never coming over here to play again.”

Ann:So then there’s shame.

Megan:Then there’s shame

Ann:And confusion.

Megan:There’s secrecy and confusion, and then there’s no more opportunities to speak into this.

Ann:Yeah, that’s great.

Megan:So we have just slammed that door. And again, the devil loves the darkness. And so now it’s gray, it’s murky, people are confused, but we’re not talking about it.

Mary Flo:We don’t want to feel that again.

Megan:And I don’t want to feel that again and say, “Oh, I am so sorry if I had any confusion. Guys, we keep the door open while we play and please put your pants on. We don’t ever look at somebody else’s private parts.”

Dave:“Please put your pants on.”

Megan:Put your hands on.

Mary Flo:Hands out of the pants.

Megan:But yeah, we want to be frequent and frank when talking about body parts. And another aspect you brought up earlier—

Dave:Frequent and frank.

Megan:Frequent and frank—

Dave:I like it.

Megan:—and that is how you should be talking about body parts to protect them, but also to prepare them. We do not want them to think these parts are just secret and bad and then all of a sudden, they’re good. That’s very confusing. And so particularly in the Christian world.

And so another angle that we talk about a lot, particularly my home with my season is screen safety. The pornography element you mentioned earlier, and it’s prevalent. I mean it’s everywhere. The average age now of first pornographic viewing is 11, which is very, very young, but accurate. I mean you think about all of the sexualized culture we’re living in and then this technology craze.

It’s everywhere, and so just the little conversations with young kids of, “Okay, mommy going to let you watch this show for a little bit while I hop in the shower, but I have to type in the code because we’ve got to be really careful with what we see around screens.” You’re just going a step ahead of them and letting them know, “There are some good things on here, but there are also some bad things.” And so again, you’re, kind of, just talking about these things.

Ann:Would you have that conversation too, to say, “And if you see something that doesn’t feel like it’s good or appropriate—”

Megan:Yes.

Ann:What would you say? Come and tell me.

Megan:Come and tell me.

Mary Flo:We give them a plan.

Ann:You give them a plan.

Megan:You have a plan: stop, run, tell. There’s a great resource out there called Good Pictures, Bad Pictures. And lots of conversations of saying “If you see a bad picture, you’re not a bad person.” There is so much shame in this conversation.

Ann:Oh that’s good.

Megan:And letting them know “If you see something maybe scary, that kind of makes your tummy feel icky, or something that makes you want to look away or a picture of a private part—remember, we don’t look at other people’s private parts.” So you have to be very clear in your definition of things, so they know. Because what happens so often with pornography unfortunately, is a young child will accidentally see something. It’s just as likely that they’ll see something on purpose as they do by accident.

So let’s say a nine-year-old accidentally gets a pop-up ad or accidentally misspells something and they’re looking at something, they might be turned away, but they also might be a little curious because that’s the way we’re wired, right?

“What did I just see? Well, I don’t know anything about this. Nobody’s told me ever that this could pop up on this little screen, but I shouldn’t.” You innately know you should not see that. Or “I shouldn’t tell my mom about that, so I’m just going to hide that,” but maybe look at again tomorrow. And that is where you just get in this dark cycle of secret and shame. And so what we’re trying to do is just bring light to a dark topic and by having these little conversations, that is essentially what we’re doing is throwing a life raft to our young kids. Say, “If you see something, come and tell me.”

Ann:Would you ever, because some kids won’t come and tell, so will you ever approach the child, like, “Hey, have you seen anything?” or would you say that or ask that?

Mary Flo:Absolutely. Absolutely. But also giving them this plan is—part of that also is something that you can practice. “Let’s say you see a bad picture, turn the iPad over because if you try”—

Ann:Oh, you told them this?

Mary Flo:Yes. “Turn the iPad over, shut it down.” Because if you try to find the exit part of that screen—you know the little X, they hide that.

Ann:Yeah, you could go to porn.

Mary Flo:And you go to more and more and more. The average viewing of a first-time viewing is just under 30 minutes. That’s a lot.

Dave:Thirty minutes.

Ann:What?!

Mary Flo:They can’t get out of it. And so it keeps reeling other things. So to shut the script—

Ann:What a strategy.

Mary Flo:Yes, the strategy. So don’t try to get out, just turn it over and come find me.

Ann:Or walk away.

Mary Flo:Walk away. And then “Let’s practice that. Let’s say you’re watching something, and it comes up. I’m in the other room. How would you do that? You see something and you think something’s weird here”—or strange or scary or whatever word you want to use, but—”it doesn’t seem right here, just turn it over. Come find me. You will not be in trouble. In fact, I’ll be really happy that you do that.”

So they’re not hesitant. They’ve done it once before. You try to get them to understand that “It’s almost like when you were little and we had Clorox under the sink. We tried to lock it out. We didn’t want you to swallow it because that would eat away at your inside. If you had swallowed the Clorox and you didn’t tell me about it, and I could have called poison control, we could have saved a lot of trouble. This is the same. It can get inside of you and sort of eat away at things. And so I want you to know that yes, we love to use, we need our computer, we needed the Clorox, but it’s not something that should be taken inside of you, so we need to be cautious with it.” Yeah.

Ann:That’s good.

Dave:I was walking with all three boys—again, they’re married with kids now—and my oldest was 12, so that means 12, 10 and 7. Am I getting their age right?

Ann:Yeah, that’s right.

Dave:Yeah. So we’re walking through a mall in an area we didn’t know, and I look ahead, and I see magazine covers like eye level. They weren’t up here. They’re right down here. I could see a swimsuit ahead, and so I watched him from behind. And a 12-year-old I saw noticed it. The ten and seven didn’t even—

Megan:Clueless.

Dave:And so I pull CJ over and I’ll never forget, I go, “Hey, CJ, did you see that magazine there?” “No, I didn’t see it.” I go, “Well, I did.” He goes, “Well, yeah, I did.” I go, “Did you see the girl in the bikini on the thing?” “No, I didn’t see it.” I go, “Well, I did.” He goes, “Yeah, I did too.” I go, “Did you want to look at her?” He goes, “No, I didn’t want to look at her.” I go, “Well, I did.” I’ll never forget. He goes, “What do you mean?” I go, “I sort of wanted to look at her. That’s why she’s on there with very little clothes on.”

Then I got right down his eye level, and I said, “But you know what? I don’t look.” I go, “I look only at your mom. That’s the only one in my life. But that is always going to be an attraction and don’t feel bad that you want to look. That’s normal.” But it’s like I said, when you said Clorox, it reminded me of that. I said, “It’s like sewer water. You don’t want to drink that kind of water. It’s not good for you.” I said, “Let’s make a pack like man to man, let’s try and be good with it.” He goes, “Okay,” but isn’t it interesting that he immediately was not going to admit it? And then when his dad says, “This is normal,” he’s like, “Oh, so how do we deal with it?”

Megan:Yes, that was rich.

Dave:Tell me Bees and Birds girls, was that a good—did I do good?

Megan:Amazing. Because I think you’re just proving our point, which is we need to lead.

Dave:Yes.

Megan:And parents, we all know everyone’s afraid and scared and dreading this, but it’s our responsibility as parents. It’s our privilege as parents to speak into this with our young kids. And just in that situation you just shared, your leading gave your son a safe place to be honest.

And think about the opposite—what if you were a dad who thought, “Oh, don’t look at that and said nothing,” or “Look away boys,” or whatever it is—what that would’ve done to that conversation.

Dave:I mean, it led to many conversations with all three boys to this day.

Mary Flo:And when you say, or you said earlier, some parents are just, they think “It’s too painful. I can’t do that.”

Ann:It does feel awkward.

Mary Flo:It does feel awkward, but here’s something you need to think about. Pick your pain. It’s going to be painful either way. We are either having this painful, somewhat awkward conversation with my son who just looked at a picture and we’re going to turn it into a relationship builder. But it was painful at the beginning. It was probably hard to say “Yeah, I did too.” A lot of parents would be too afraid to admit that.

Dave:Yeah, right.

Mary Flo:But you picked that pain over the pain of a long-term “Can’t talk about it. Who knows where this will go.” And so not talking about it is not avoiding the pain.

Ann:You’re right.

Mary Flo:It’s just picking a different kind—sort of pinch pain or deep pain.

Dave:Now how are your husbands involved? I’m sitting over here as a guy thinking, “Okay, we’re listening to two women and talking about it.” How do your men, or how should we as men—

Megan:In the parenting conversations.

Dave:Yeah, with this whole topic, it isn’t just moms talking to their kids, it’s dads.

Ann:I’m assuming too, there’s probably one parent that could feel more comfortable than another possibly.

Mary Flo:Absolutely.

Ann:That does happen.

Megan:And we always say—we get the question a lot of, “Okay, so moms talk to girls and dads talk to boys, right?” And we say, “No. What we are encouraging is for whoever’s asked the question should answer it. We want these conversations to be happening as naturally as possible.”

Ann:Don’t wait and say, “When your dad comes in”—

Dave:“Ask your mother.”

Megan:You might want him to follow up, circle back. We say that a lot of like you might say, “But I want dad to answer a little bit more. He’s got a different perspective than me.”

Ann:That’s good.

Megan:But we don’t want—again, we want them to know that they can come to us with their questions. And so the question comes up in the car, you want to answer them. You don’t want to say, “Well, let’s talk to Dad.” Because that kind of makes them think, “Well, maybe Mom doesn’t know what she’s talking about.” Or maybe, and I might not know—

Ann:Or maybe mom’s embarrassed.

Megan:Right. And so for dads, we say, “This is just as much your job as it’s mom’s job.” And those conversations might be different based on personalities or time availability, if they’re around a lot or if they’re not around, or who’s driving carpool that week. I think it just depends. But typically, there’ll be somebody who’s more comfortable talking. But I don’t think there’s a hard and fast rule. We want dads to be engaged.

Dave:I’m encouraging dads: get involved.

Mary Flo:Absolutely.

Megan:Without a doubt.

Dave:Honestly. And some of it would be like if I had a daughter, which we had sons, and she started asking me about menstruation, I’d be like, part of me—

Mary Flo:I have something to learn too.

Dave:I know the details, but I don’t know anything. But if you want to talk about wet dreams, she’s not going to be able to.

Mary Flo:Exactly.

Dave:That’s first time in the history of FamilyLife I’ve said wet dreams.

Megan:I was about to say, you were getting onto me about saying penis. You’re throwing around wet dreams.

Dave:They’ll probably edit that out probably. I mean, it’s a reality for especially teenage boys.

Megan:Nocturnal ejaculation, textbook word.

Dave:There you go. That’s too technical.

Ann:That would have been better.

Mary Flo:You sound more like the expert.

Ann:That’s true. That’s good. Coach us on—

Dave:One last thing before you go into another question. Where can our watchers and listeners get your stuff?

Megan:So our online course is our most comprehensive resource. It’s a 75-minute class. We both teach it. We break down the talk into ten different video sessions you can watch at home with a small group, with your spouse, by yourself, and that’s on our website, birds-bees.com. And then for daily talking tips in an online community, you can follow us on Instagram and that’s @birds__bees.

Dave:Alright, and we’ll put that in the show notes.

Megan:Okay, thanks.

Mary Flo:Great.

Ann:So let’s—coach us on how to protect our kids from any kind of sexual abuse. Because parents are wanting to know that, but they’re not sure where to get started.

Mary Flo:Well, really to get started, it is with the vocabulary, it is not being too silly, not being too shameful, but being very matter of fact about it and letting them know that those parts are private parts, but young children—

Ann:And that started probably when they’re really young.

Mary Flo:When they’re young; when they’re potty training.

Ann:What’s that sound like when you do it?

Mary Flo:Well, you just name their body part. This is your penis. This is your vagina. And the reason we use the word vagina is because we’re going to be building. We’re not going to—and so we don’t give them all of the body parts of the female. You can if you want to, but we’re building up to conception in birth, and that’s the word we’ll be using.

But the privacy is also an important part of that. And what we want them to know is what does private mean? Because you’ll say, “Those are private” and a child will nod, “Okay,” but do they even know what that means? And so you want to give them specific instructions. “No one else looks at, touches, or takes pictures”—we have to add that now—”of your private parts. And you don’t do that to other people.” You just set clear boundaries so that they know.

And actually Megan has a great example of when they were all going on a family trip with other families and kind of sat everybody down. Maybe share that because I thought that was really cool.

Megan:Again, kind of just going ahead of these situations because I think parents, I think to reassure you, if you’re sitting here listening thinking, “Well, my kids are silly about private parts all the time.” Great. And you have normal children, and you’ll have plenty of opportunities to speak in this way to them. But when you’re around a lot of kids, I think it’s always helpful to kind of go ahead of these situations.

And so this was a spring break trip we took with a bunch of families, shared a big lake house, whatever, and to go over the rules. And obviously these are families we’re very close with and the parents were all on board. I wouldn’t like, take over here, but just to kind establish to all the kids, “Hey, here are the kind of rules of the weekend or the evening. The kids are going to be upstairs watching a movie while the parents finish their pizza downstairs. The lights are going to stay on. This is the movie we’ve picked. No one’s changing it. Let’s be kind and thoughtful to the little kids. Let’s not pick on them. Keep your clothes on. Remember guys, our private parts are private and if you need anything, come downstairs and get us. And the door’s staying open.”

So right there, you’re just clearing, making it very crystal clear.

Ann:It’s just a normal conversation. “You’re going to have popcorn.”

Megan:These are the rules. Keep your penis in your pants, and if you have a question, come and find me. Because the reality is that’s when things happen, is when the cousins are having a sleepover or the neighbors are upstairs, and the parents are having dinner and people aren’t looking. And then our kids don’t know exactly what to do with this information. And so we are going a step ahead of them and saying, “Hey, these are the rules. This is the clear line, and if it’s crossed, come and tell me.” And so kids need us to establish those clear boundaries. And so that is something that can be done for overnight things, for play dates in the bathtub, if you go to the pediatrician. The pediatricians now tell your children in the room. I think my daughter was maybe eight when this, seven, said, “Sweetheart, Dr. So-and-so’s going to be looking at your vagina. I can only do this because your mommy’s in the room.” So they’re establishing that pattern.

Ann:My pediatrician always said that too.

Megan:But we also encourage parents from that story, use your pediatrician voice. She didn’t emotionalize that conversation of, “Oh, this is going to feel funny,” but because your mom—are you okay?” It was just like, “Hey, this is what it is. This is the line. Are you okay with it? Is your mother okay with it? Okay, let’s move on.” And I think that is what we can kind of use that tone in our home.

My youngest is now six, so he has been living in this. We always say your family is the age of your oldest child and everybody keeps up. So God bless my six-year-old. He is living in an almost 12-year-old home, but there are a lot of good things that come with that. Anyway, so he has been the product of this home. So we talk all the time and all these things. And he came home the other day and said, “So-and-so touched my penis at school.” And I said, “Oh, I’m so glad you told me that. I’m so glad you told me that but nobody else is supposed to touch it. He goes, “I know. That’s what I told him.”

Dave:Obviously you didn’t freak out.

Ann:Good response because every parent would want to freak out at that moment.

Megan:I did not freak out.

Dave:Pediatrician voice, “Thanks for telling me.

Megan:Because we talk about this so often, my instinct was not like, “Well, there’s a predator in that classroom. I’m going to sue the school.” It’s like, take it down. “I’m so glad you told me that. You’re right. Nobody should ever do that. I’m so glad you told me. Tell me what happened.” It was a playground situation. I think he did this. It was nothing terrible. I mean, no one should touch your penis, period. Let’s just clear the air.

Mary Flo:But he knew the boundaries.

Megan:But he knew the boundaries and even if it was a silly playful slap, it’s still not appropriate. I said, “I’m so glad you told me that. I’ll make sure; I’ll talk to Mrs. So-and-so.” And then “What are some things you could say on the playground if he does that again?” And he goes, “Yeah, I told him, ‘You do not touch my penis.’” I said, “Well, there you go.” I said, “I’m so proud of you for using your voice in that way.” But again, that was a very small example of a very little situation. Praise God. That was not a big deal, but it was empowering for him to know. We had practiced that at home. Not every day, but that’s something we talk about. And something, the line was crossed. He knew that clear line; that’s not right. “Hey, stop.” Yeah. And then he came and told me. I affirmed him.

Dave:He’s six years old.

Megan:He’s six.

Dave:He sounded like a 12-year-old.

Megan:Yeah.

Dave:Yeah.

Megan:“I’m so proud of you for saying that.” And as a parent, I want parents to hear that. I’m not afraid of that because not that—there are terrible things out there. We could all live in fear for everything. But in that situation, I thought, I know that he knows these things. I know he can speak up. I know things can happen. And so I think that is what we want to do is empower parents that this is not something I can do because I’m a Birds and Bees person. It’s like, no, you can do this. Everybody can talk to their kids like this.

Dave:Can you imagine if you had been taught that?

Megan:I think y’all did probably a pretty good job.

Dave:I mean with her sexual abuse with her cousins.

Ann:There was just so much.

Dave:There was silence—

Mary Flo:I’m so sorry.

Dave:—devil in the darkness.

Ann:I mean, I was assigned as a four-year-old to find pornography from uncles. And so just the exposure of that, you don’t even realize, which I think—I mean, you know that the rates of girls and boys now being abused sexually is crazy.

Megan:It’s one in four.

Ann:Yeah, for little girls and it’s not much better for little boys. But just last week I was with a woman, she’s in her thirties, she’s about to have her fifth baby. She was saying—we were doing some trauma things that she had experienced. And I said, “When was the first time that you experienced that trauma?” And she said, “I was five years old, and my neighbor was eight, and we were at the side of the house outside and he said, “Pull down your pants. I want to see your vagina.” And she said, “I didn’t know what to do. And so I didn’t do it. But then he told me again, ‘Do it,’ and I did it.”

So I thought as you’re talking, I’m like, this is what we need to equip our kids with, just some tools, some strategies, some wisdom.

Mary Flo:Empowering the children.

Ann:It’s empowerment.

Megan:I just got goosebumps because I can’t tell you how many DMs we get from parents saying, “This just happened in the backyard,” “This happened at my sister’s house,” “This happened”—whatever. And I think we have been so misinformed as parents, and so I don’t want any parent to sit here and think, “Oh, I’ve done it wrong. I’ve messed up.”

Mary Flo:“No.”

Megan:Christ redeems all things. You are not too late to do these things. But the answer is so simple in that; move into that space, speak into that. “Oh, honey, nobody should touch your vagina. That’s your private part. I’m so glad you told me.” We’ve got to move towards our kids. We preempt these situations to protect them. And that happens so often because kids are curious. Kids are so curious. And these situations happen all the time. And so if we as parents aren’t speaking into this and not setting as clear boundaries, it’s just the beginning, which is just so heartbreaking.

Dave:Like you said, we have to.

Ann:And what would you say—

Dave:We have to because we have to be the voices because they’re hearing them. I’m just thinking what you experienced and what your friend experienced is heightened times a thousand because of porn.

Megan:That’s exactly right.

Dave:They’re stumbling upon it, and they don’t even know, I want to see that. And they are curious. In some ways it’s normal, but it’s just been so degrading.

Mary Flo:It really has been. And the thing is that the voice that you use will also make a difference. Your words make a difference. But we were starting to say a minute ago, if you come to them in a really heavy voice, but we don’t do that when we’re talking about crossing the street. We say, “Okay, let’s look both ways.” These are the boundaries and this is the protection. When they’re in the kitchen, “That’s really a hot stove. We need to back away.” We don’t go “Now, let me tell you about third-degree burns.” We don’t go there.

Ann:Yeah, that’s good.

Mary Flo:And when they’re at the pools, there has to be an adult. We are setting boundaries for them all the time. But I do think it’s the enemy who makes us think we should not set boundaries on this in just a normal tone. In using your pediatric voice, using that I’m just telling you, “This part of your body. These parts of your body, other people should not look. You shouldn’t let them touch. If that ever happens, you come to me, you walk away.” You give them instructions; you guide them because you can’t always be with them.

Ann:Let me ask you, if a parent’s listening and they haven’t done any of this, maybe they have a 12-year-old and they’re even wondering, “Could any of this have happened to my kids?” How do we start the conversation at that age if we haven’t been having a lot of little conversations?

Mary Flo:Well, we bring it to their attention, but you don’t have to pull it all out at the same time. You don’t have to go through everything. But I think you can own it. You can say, “Okay, there’s a topic that has never been on our table. We have never brought it up. And if you’ve asked questions, I’m going to confess I’ve kind of avoided them. It makes me uncomfortable. But we’re going to start talking about things having to do with sex. When I say sex, I mean how babies are made, how babies are born, what our bodies are made for. But we’re not going to start today. But over the next several months, we’re going to have lots of little conversations. I just want you to know that’s on my mind now.”

Ann:And what if the child says, “Oh mom, this is so humiliating.”

Mary Flo:And just, “I get it. I get it. And know that these are now in the future going to be better shoulder to shoulder than face-to-face.”

Ann:That’s good.

Mary Flo:So don’t look in their face and say, “We’re going to meet at the breakfast table, 6:00 AM, and we’re going to talk.” But no, it’s more like “We’re going to take a walk on Tuesday nights. That’s the only night that we have, and we’re only going to walk around the block twice. We’re not going to walk five miles and talk about this, but we’re just going to, and I want you to bring some questions. You might be uncomfortable at first. I have to tell you, I’ve obviously been uncomfortable, but it’s too important for me not to break the silence. And so I’m going to break the silence and we’re going to start this journey together.”

But it’s not the time for you to say, “So tomorrow we’re going to cover everything that I’ve missed.” It’s more like “We’re just going to start this journey.” And maybe it’s washing dishes together or folding clothes together, doing something, but not face to face and not all at once.

Ann:I remember my mom coming to me. I think I might’ve been 13, and my sister had exposed that she had been sexually abused to my mom. And so my mom came to me and said, “Hey, has so-and-so ever touched you?” And it was a dread voice. It was very—

Megan:A dread in her voice.

Ann:—solemn. Her voice, very solemn. I already had been abused, and I felt so much shame about it that I was like, “No.” And because that person didn’t, but other people had. And so I wish, I don’t know if I would’ve ever admitted to it because I had so much already, and I pushed it down. I felt so much shame. But I think if she would’ve not had the solemn, scary voice, and if she would’ve brought it back up in a normal way or even said, “This happens sometimes, and it’s not your fault,” that would’ve lifted up so much because as a little girl is, even four and five.

I remember I was five years old. I thought it must be something with me. It must be me that this keeps happening. And so just to acknowledge some of those things, I think it’s so healthy and so good to not just try once, but over and over. And what a great conversation if you haven’t done. It’s just so humble. “I haven’t been good at this, and I’m sorry. I should have.”

Mary Flo:Yes, or “I just didn’t understand. No one ever spoke to me, and I didn’t know, but now I’m feeling it very strongly that I need to start having these conversations. And for a while, you don’t have to say anything.”

Ann:Oh, that’s good.

Mary Flo:“You’re not obligated, but it’s on me. But there’s some things you need to hear.” And they may say, “I already know all of this.” “You might know a lot, but I need you to hear my heart, and we need to make a path where we can talk about these things.”

Ann:So good. I wanted to get into some specifics, and I’m sure you get asked this. When should a brother and sister not take baths together anymore?—or a parent showering with a child? Are there age-appropriate times when that shouldn’t be happening?

Megan:We get that question a lot. That is one of our most frequently asked questions. And the long and short of it, for both of those questions, we would say to respect the most modest person. So modesty is a, what’s the word I’m looking for? Just, well, it’s just a scale. Some families are going to be very modest; some families are very immodest. Excuse me. That’s a personal preference.

Culturally, it’s a huge thing. Our Instagram community has grown internationally, and so whenever we discuss this on Instagram, we hear from people all over the world. They’re like, “You Americans are the most modest people.”

Ann:Interesting; different cultures.

Megan:And it’s shocking. You’re like, “Wait, y’all bathe together?” And we’ve got people be like, “My four-year-old is looking at me.” So it’s such a swing. But we always say respect the most modest person. So before puberty, before bodies start to change, if everybody’s comfortable with it, if you have an eight-year-old and a seven-year-old that still are taking a bath together and everything’s fine, that’s—carry on. No big deal.

But if someone starts to express verbally or non-verbally a desire for privacy, like, “I don’t really want to bathe with my brothers anymore,” or they’re hanging with the towel in the corner, “You know what guys, we’re going to take separate showers.” And parent to child, you might be very immodest, your husband might be very immodest, but you can tell your child’s visibly uncomfortable now. Typically it happens late elementary school. I mean, it doesn’t happen for a while, but if they start to become uncomfortable, but you’re thinking, “Well, this is just the way we are.”

Well, if the child’s uncomfortable, again, take the onus off of them. You are the parent. “You know what, we’re all getting robes for Christmas, so this is what we’re going to do now.” So be mindful of the most modest person in the home. But I think bath time, honestly, with siblings is a really, it’s chockful of conversations.

So if everyone’s okay with it, that is age appropriate, but again, respect the most modest person in the home, whether that’s the adult, whether that’s dad saying, “Okay, everyone’s eye level and this is too much for me,” then “Okay, you get to shower alone and we’re going to close the door for this.” But if everyone’s still okay with it and their bodies have not started changing and you’re not in those puberty years, then it’s really okay.

Mary Flo:I would almost add, and if they’re not being too silly. They have to be respecting the boundaries in the bathtub too. So bath time, sometimes it’s like, “Y’all go take a bath, I’m leaving for a while.” And you kind of need to keep your ear on what’s happening in the bathtub just so you know what’s going on. That they are being respectful. Because they get silly.

Dave:You got other ones?

Ann:Those are the ones that came to my mind immediately.

Dave:Well, I would just say thank you. I think you know better than we do, you’re changing the conversation for the next generation of parents.

Ann:Because it’s our job to disciple our kids in this area. Because if you’re not as a parent, the culture and the world will, and they are discipling our kids in this area.

Megan:And that’s something we say a lot, particularly to Christian groups. We speak all over, but in church settings and Christian schools, we speak more freely, obviously, but is to encourage parents and to kind of wake them up a little of the world is shouting. The world is sending very clear messages about sex, and they are most likely degrading, confusing, disrespectful.

And if we out of our discomfort or awkwardness or dread or, “Oh, I can’t say that word. Oh, penis,” whatever, if we’re so afraid of this, we are essentially just waving a white flag and saying, “I can’t do this sweetie,” but just listen. And our children deserve so much more than that. And it is our responsibility and privilege, like we said, to speak into this. And particularly as Christians, we have a good story to tell. And if we are believing the culture of this is the reality, this is the actual definition of sex and the design, then what are we doing? We have a good story to tell. And if we’re not telling it, we’re giving our story rights away to somebody else.

Ann:I love that you’re bringing it all into the light because what you said, the enemy loves the darkness and the shadows, and we want to, Jesus is all about the light. So let’s have those conversations with our kids and pray. If you haven’t prayed about it, pray that God will give you wisdom—

Mary Flo:Absolutely.

Ann:—and direction.

Megan:Pray, pray, pray.

Ann:Yeah. That’s good.

Dave:Yeah, way to go. My last thought is, go get T-shirts to say B and B Girls. It could be a thing.

Megan:It’ll catch on. We’ll have swag next time.

Ann:Exactly, exactly, with a little bee on it.

Dave:People walk up to you, “What’s that mean?” We talk frankly and godly from the word of God to our kids about the birds and the bees.

Ann:I’m so glad you’re doing what you’re doing.

Megan:Thank you for having us.

Mary Flo:Thank you for having us.

Ann:Hey, thanks for watching. If you liked this episode,—

Dave:You better like it.

Ann:—just hit that “Like” button.

Dave:And we’d like you to subscribe. So all you got to do is go down and hit the “Subscribe”—I can’t say the word, “subscribe.” Hit the “Subscribe” button. I don’t think I can say this word!

Ann:Like and subscribe.

Dave:Look at that; you say it so easy. Subscribe, there it goes.

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